How much power is needed to cut tires loose at 50+Mph?

MrNuke · 10-24-2003, 01:40 PM

As topic asks. I know a guy who has an 94 LT1 with 3.54's and mods, and his car breaks the tires lose at 50-55mph. Curious to know how much power you need for that. He claimshe has 400rwhp.
Is that true?

[Modified by MrNuke, 12:43 PM 10/24/2003]

Bearcat · 10-24-2003, 08:13 PM

I don't know. But I am capable of that. I'm at 5800 feet altitude, and with my naturally aspirated 427 big block that I built up, I tested it and shifting from first to second at 7000 rpm, I lit up the tires from around 65 to about 85 before it stopped fishtailing. And I'm still trying to get the Gold Claw tuned properly.

It's a 3.36 rear end that I dislike. I really need more like a 3.70 to 3.90 to take advantage of the high rpm of this motor.

Just go big block, or big small block, and I'll bet you can.

632C2 · 10-24-2003, 10:25 PM

Is he saying that he can break the tires loose while shifting gears or by merely nailing it while doing 50-55 and cruising on the freeway?

Steve

BacaBill · 10-24-2003, 11:58 PM

Won't a little torque convertor (like out of a Vega) do that in any V8?
I knew a guy I grew up near that had a Vega convertor in his Chevelle BB & it would smoke the tires even if he punched the gas at 60mph. I was only 12 or 13 at the time so I could be wrong.
Bill

SmokedTires · 10-25-2003, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Is he saying that he can break the tires loose while shifting gears or by merely nailing it while doing 50-55 and cruising on the freeway?

Steve

:iagree: It's much easier to bark the tires shifting at 50 mph, or spinning the wheels so that the speedo reads 50+ mph than it is to actually break the tires loose rolling at 50+mph :yesnod: .

MrNuke · 10-25-2003, 06:20 PM

It is automatic and they said , he can floor it at 50-55mph and when the car downshifts into 2nd (I guess) he loses traction. Not a chirp but starts spinning the tires.

SleepieAce · 10-25-2003, 08:26 PM

I can do it in a C5 with the mods in my sig. I'm driving a M6, though, and I think that makes it easier. I haven't dynoed the car, but I know its way over 400 rwhp.

Edit: BTW, 50 mph is the bottom of second and it will spin the tires while rolling or while shifting up. Part of the problem is the stock runflats, which I plan on changing this spring. :cheers:

[Modified by SleepieAce, 7:29 PM 10/25/2003]

norvalwilhelm · 10-25-2003, 08:53 PM

I don't know but I can be driving along in 3rd gear and just roll on the throttle around 4000 and break the tires loose. No shifting involved, just rolling on the throttle. Don't know the speed but around the middle of 3rd gear. 4th is the 1st gear I don't have to worry about loosing it.

MrNuke · 10-25-2003, 11:42 PM

Quote:

I don't know but I can be driving along in 3rd gear and just roll on the throttle around 4000 and break the tires loose. No shifting involved, just rolling on the throttle. Don't know the speed but around the middle of 3rd gear. 4th is the 1st gear I don't have to worry about loosing it.

And what mods / HP are you running?

89gta383 · 10-26-2003, 01:14 AM

I used to do it with my old 383, superram, 219, 3.73 gears, 3500 yank combo.

Chuck Harmon · 10-28-2003, 02:25 PM

My 2002 ZO6 can break the tires loose in 2nd below 60mph simply flooring it, no shift, if the pavement has the slightest bit of dust on it and the traction control is off. It makes 350 rwhp.

My L88 clone makes 480rwhp and it can break the tires loose in 3rd and sometimes 4th at 100+ mph if the pavement isn't perfect. I must be very careful when flooring the car in the first 3 gears (3rd is 102 @ 6500rpm) because I can get sideways in the blink of an eye. And I still have 3 gears left! :D If you listen to the recording I have for the '69 when you visit my website (click my sig and click the Blue Vette) you can hear me accelerating onto a highway. I was not revving at a stop. 1st gear is only smoke, 2nd is only smoke, 3rd gets a bite, but I had to feather the throttle because of traffic. An honest 500rwhp really is more than most people can imagine in a 3200 pound car.

Chuck

[Modified by Chuck Harmon, 10:31 AM 10/28/2003]

632C2 · 10-28-2003, 10:23 PM

My '67 with 838 flywheel horsepower(722 ft/lbs torque) and 714 rear wheel horsepower(624 rear wheel torque) would destroy the tires in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd (I use a 5 speed G-Force trans with 5th gear being 1:1).

I only tried this at or below 40 - 50 mph because it was very hard to control and I can't stand the thought of destroying this car.

One time I did roll into the throttle while doing about 60-65mph in 5th gear(1:1)on the freeway. If my memory serves me correctly, this was around 3000-3500rpm. The car lurched to the left and flat took off. I did not notice any tire spin though my passenger was terrified. Looking at my DynoJet graphs, I am developing around 500 ft/lbs of torque at 3500rpm.

My 1990 Callaway Twin Turbo that makes 607 rear wheel horsepower and 735 rear wheel torque did not break the tires loose in 4th gear(1:1) when I nailed it and the boost came on. However, it did spin the Center Force Dual Friction clutch. With a better clutch it MIGHT have spun the tires.

Steve

MrNuke · 10-28-2003, 11:51 PM

Quote:

My '67 with 838 flywheel horsepower(722 ft/lbs torque) and 714 rear wheel horsepower(624 rear wheel torque) would destroy the tires in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd (I use a 5 speed G-Force trans with 5th gear being 1:1).

I only tried this at or below 40 - 50 mph because it was very hard to control and I can't stand the thought of destroying this car.

One time I did roll into the throttle while doing about 60-65mph in 5th gear(1:1)on the freeway. If my memory serves me correctly, this was around 3000-3500rpm. The car lurched to the left and flat took off. I did not notice any tire spin though my passenger was terrified. Looking at my DynoJet graphs, I am developing around 500 ft/lbs of torque at 3500rpm.

My 1990 Callaway Twin Turbo that makes 607 rear wheel horsepower and 735 rear wheel torque did not break the tires loose in 4th gear(1:1) when I nailed it and the boost came on. However, it did spin the Center Force Dual Friction clutch. With a better clutch it MIGHT have spun the tires.

Steve

Wow.. Thats some power..

SO I'm gathering around 400-450CHP is needed to spin them on an automatic at 50-55mph.

Also tire condition probably matters.. Old GSC = spinning, new non GSC mayeb not spin.

MikeC · 10-29-2003, 10:51 AM

Quote:

I don't know but I can be driving along in 3rd gear and just roll on the throttle around 4000 and break the tires loose. No shifting involved, just rolling on the throttle. Don't know the speed but around the middle of 3rd gear. 4th is the 1st gear I don't have to worry about loosing it.

:yesnod: And it scared the crap outta me when she broke loose too! I can't imagine what the ride would be like at full throttle with you at the wheel!

Quote:

And what mods / HP are you running

He has this shiney thing sticking out of his hood. His HP level is between "a whole bunch" and "I think I need some clean underwear"

[Modified by MikeC, 9:51 AM 10/29/2003]

Z-man · 10-30-2003, 08:24 PM

The answer to this question must also specify the tire/road contact patch specifics. 150hp would break the tires loose in the '60s with skinny, bias ply tires and high air pressure, yet a top fuel dragster won't break the tires loose with 3,000hp during a good run...

Chuck Harmon · 10-30-2003, 10:10 PM

Z-man,

Your point is well taken. A sticky tire will hold far more power than a standard one. The F1's on my Z are about as sticky a street tire as you will find. But tire width has little to do with the contact patch. The size of the contact patch is simply the weight of the car on any one tire divided by the tire pressure. The tire's width only defines the shape the contact patch will have: i.e. long and skinny vs. short and wide.

Chuck

[Modified by Chuck Harmon, 4:36 PM 10/31/2003]

Z-man · 10-31-2003, 03:55 PM

Chuck -

Good points. It seems that the two important factors are car weight and coefficient of friction on the contact patch.

Maybe the original question could be answered exactly if it was phrased "How much power/torque is needed to cut the tires loose at 50mph with a 3200lb car and XXX brand tires?" Using a C/F of .84, I came up with 476.42 hp and 483.09 lbft tq. What did you guys get?? :jester

Also, I'm guessing the "stickier" the tire, the shorter the lifespan. I've heard some Porsches get only about 7,000 miles to a set. :eek:

scorp508 · 11-01-2003, 11:13 AM

All depends on how good/crappy your tires are in the first place.

Quote:

yet a top fuel dragster won't break the tires loose with 3,000hp during a good run...

I don't agree with that.

Rottenrob · 11-02-2003, 08:00 AM

Quote:

My '67 with 838 flywheel horsepower(722 ft/lbs torque) and 714 rear wheel horsepower(624 rear wheel torque) would destroy the tires in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd (I use a 5 speed G-Force trans with 5th gear being 1:1).

I only tried this at or below 40 - 50 mph because it was very hard to control and I can't stand the thought of destroying this car.

One time I did roll into the throttle while doing about 60-65mph in 5th gear(1:1)on the freeway. If my memory serves me correctly, this was around 3000-3500rpm. The car lurched to the left and flat took off. I did not notice any tire spin though my passenger was terrified. ...
Steve

:lol: :lurk:

Z-man · 11-03-2003, 02:15 AM

Quote:

I don't agree with that.

Scorp - Haven't you noticed? The guy who gets even the smallest puff of smoke from his tires loses the race...!!!

[Modified by Z-man, 11:16 PM 11/2/2003]