Jenny

Hi, i just received this message from a member of a Honda Board: I dont' really know what to think about it, please let me know what you guys think. I'm skeptical by nature anyway, but i'm wondering what you think about what this guy has to say... does it all hold air??

Hey Jen,

I was just thinking earlier about your 383 project and realized that I've got an engine here you may be interested in. If you aren't then head me off at the pass, but I'll give you a run-down on what I have to offer and go from there.

First off, this engine isn't mine, but I'm in charge of selling it if I wish. I have heard it run and it sounds real good, but I have not seen it make a car go. It's also attached to a TH-700-R4 transmission, complete with shifter set up and torque converter if you want that too. CR is 11:1 and it runs on 92 octane pump gas without argument.

The engine is a 407" small block. I'm not sure how they get 407" out of it, but I would guess that it's not only stroked, but bored over some to achieve that size. They might use a 400 block, I don't know.

When built originally about 5 years ago, it made 460+HP on the local SuperFlow dyno and at least as much torque. It has a factory 4 bolt block, forged crank, Child's and Albert's rods, Ross pistons, Brodix heads (of unknown type), Edelbrock TM1 intake, Crower cam, Edelbrock roller rockers, chro-mo pushrods, it's running a chain drive and it has a Corvette oil pan, HEI distributor with MSD ignition, some fancy plug wires, an Edlebrock 4-barrel carb (same as Carter) and an external oil filter setup, (but can go with a standard filter). It's also got some fancy pulleys and a free alternator comes with it. I think the water pump is Edelbrock too, but it might be something else...

For all this I mentioned, the guy wants $2,000.00

Personally I don't find that too horribly attractive and I'll tell you why. The heads are fairly old, I'd say early to mid 80's for that stuff. They have been ported and since I've not taken the engine apart, I don't know much about them. I have seen down the intake manifold and it has had some pretty intricate mods including some welding in certain areas of the manifold itself. The texture looks good too, not overly fine or polished, similar to what you see on the Endyn stuff. I've also seen in the exhaust ports and there wasn't anything that looked "wrong" about them necessarily. The manifold in my opinion is something you'd hang on your wall as a souvenir, those were not very effective manifolds even in their day, and that's why Edelbrock quit making them.

So summing up the induction/head situation, it's unknown for the heads and a throw-away for the manifold.

The bottom end is fine with one exception in my mind and that's the pistons. The alloy Ross used/uses is a high expansion alloy and the pistons need a ton of clearance to expand when they get hot. This means that they rattle around when the engine is cold and I don't think they(engine builders) left enough clearance, because this engine always ran hot. That might also be because of the installation of the cooling system/radiator (or both most likely), but my money is on the "junk" pistons. Other than that, I think it's a good engine.

So here's what I would propose if you were interested and are truly serious about it. I'll pull the heads and we can figure out if they are worth investing time into. If they are worth it, we could go ahead and freshen the heads with a valve job or whatever else is needed. If not, you get to buy new heads. I'd likely set you up with an Edelbrock RPM air-gap intake unless your heart is set on something different, or if you have a fuel injection set up, or whatever. I'd "port match" the new intake (with the proper step in the right direction). I'd also swap out the pistons for a set of JE's or Wiseco's and bore/hone the block to match the new piston size, new rings, new bearings, micro-polish the crank, new lifters, new chain drive, and whatever else needs to be done. For that package with the re-built engine, the new pistons, the new intake with re-built heads (assuming they are OK) and all the external stuff (transmission etc.) I'd sell the engine for $4,000.

If you want a different cam, you pay for the cam and I'll put it in for "free." If you wanted different heads, or the ones I have are no good, then we'll work that out then, I don't care what intake you want, but I'd recommend that which I mentioned. If you don't want the transmission, I'll knock some cash off the engine cost too. Also, depending on where you live, I can probably get a deal on shipping if needed.

I guess what I'm getting at is, you'd have a more powerful engine and a free automatic overdrive transmission for about $500 more than the 383, (plus shipping if needed.) Let me know what you think or if you are intersted..

Sean

GlockLT4

Sounds like an O.K. deal, but I would find out exactly what some of those parts that he's not sure on. I decided to rebuild mine instead of buying another because I know exactly what's going into it.

Jenny

thanks glock! I will hopefully have details soon. Please keep the comments coming.. this is pretty important.. how do you get a 406c.i. block? Any info is apprecaited. THanks y'all.

drive it

Well, it may be the guy is OK, BUT, a couple things don't ring true.... if he's offering to put in a cam for "free" labor (himself) but doesn't know enough to know how you get a 406....(it's actually a sbc 400 bored over .030). Then, "this engine isn't mine". How 'bout let you talk to who does own it and maybe knows more about it. Then the pistons-it sounds like he's trying to say that they're hypereutectic??? If so, thats not junk. Can he fire it up now? Doesn't sound like it. Yes, I'm skeptical by nature and job too; if he's close by you it would be worth it to have someone who knows engines to go with you and check it out. But with his expressed knowledge of engines (lack thereof), there's no way I'd pay him to "rebuild" it. Just my $0.02, but I'd hate to see you get burned.....Oh yea, BTW-he's not from Bakersfield, Ca. is he!

PatsLs1vette

who knows he most likely doesnt have steam holes in the heads so that why its running hot too,if he doesnt know how he got 407c.i out of it..then he must not too much...its not a bad deal...but id have to check it out first before putting it in....ok i just reread it hes selling it for someone...


[Modified by pats406nitrovette, 7:01 AM 12/13/2001]

ddecart

Me :confused:

He says that $2000 isn't a good deal for the engine as is but for an additional $2000 he'll replace the piastons and give it a valve job? :eek: Talk about bad deals. Something sounds very fishy there to me. My take would be "ok, if $2000 is steep for that engine, what's a fair price for the engine AS-IS? $1200? $1500? $1700?" Figuring the guy would let it go for $1500, then you have $2500 to spend on upgrades to match that original $4000 price. You can mod the hell out of an engine for $2500. Even if you pay someone else to do it.

The guy knows nothing about that engine. Chich cam is in it? Which pistons? Which heads? He's rattling off brand names like you're supposed to be impressed or something.

If you're interested then I'd be talking to whomever actually owns the engine.

Dave

Jenny

Yeah i'm hoping to find out more info soon. I think the 4K is for the tranny too? :confused:. Hopefully he'll reply sometime today so we know what we're dealing with :). Thanks y'all. You brought up some good points that i will use to my advantage :lol:

BlueShark29

I agree with ddecart !! Something sounds very fishy. $1500 for the whole thing AS IS would be a good deal, then disassemble and check what parts you would like to reuse and rebuild for your application.
I have just under $3000 in my 406 in my '65 convertible and it has a Lunati prepped block and crank (internally balanced), etc.
Just my .02 :)

Lohkay

Huh...at 4000$ you can have a brand new engine...not one 20+ year old. That thing is worth 1500$, no more.

And besides, with 4000$, you can take your current engine, buy a new cam, afr heads and intake and install them professionally, make more than that other engine is making and still have some money for donuts. :D...huummm....donuts....

SPD DMN

If it has Ross pistons, and they are forged, then they will act just as he described. Ross are not anywhere near junk pistons.

Jenny

So i should offer if pics and everything else checkes out $1500 engine only? (Assuming everything else is ok)

Jenny

BlueShark- any problems with fitting the engine into the vette? Retrofitting? THankx

BlueShark29

Jenny,
No problems what so ever !!
Since I used an Edelbrock Performer RPM intake, and a 3" x 14" Dia. air cleaner I had to put a '67 BB hood on the car for clearance (but I like the '67 BB hood anyway). I am still using the original aluminum radiator with no overheating problems, either, ( I did drill the steam holes in the AFR heads).
On my '81 Vette, I built a 383 and used Edelbrock's Pro-Flo Fuel Injection system (uses a modified Victor Jr. intake with injectors and a short throttle body) and it has a 3" x 14" air cleaner on it as well, all fitting under the stock hood.
On my '65 Coupe, (just installed a new ZZ4, complete) I wanted to use the Performer RPM Air-Gap, but also wanted to retain the stock hood on it, so I used the intake that came on it as Chevrolet now puts a low profile one on the ZZ4 engine. I am also using a 3" x 14 dia. air cleaner on it.

Jenny

pics: