Monty

I remember someone else was contemplating the switch to a dry sump system several months ago.

I'm going to switch over to a dry sump system and a distributorless ignition system (F.A.S.T./SpeedPro eDIST)this winter, and waned to hear how it went.

gkull

The dist less ig. is what I have always wanted. Crane has the four choice timing curve. As for the dry sump. I think that you have as much idea as me. The sprint car guy's all have the crank driven 4 stage. With the air bleed manifolds to keep vac. at @ 20 inches. They also have the alky fuel pump driven off of the back of the cam

Road racers seem to have the toothed belt driven.

I have wondered about - The cost of your intake and throttle body if something like the Kinsler with 8 injections tubes might have been a viable alternative.

Monty

I will definitely go with a Gilmer gear driven oil pump drive. I don't think I'll need more than a 4 stage pump, one suction for the pan and each valve cover. I'm going to call CV Products today and see what Barnes offers for "endurance" or "road race" setups. Most of the drag race pumps use rifle drilled shafts and stuff, for light weight, and would hold up for the long term.

gkull

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/default.asp

I'm sure that these guy's can help you out. I've ordered a few things from them. I got to thinking about Sprint car oil pumps and I think that Vettes would have real clearance issues with pumps on the front of the motor.

Monty

Stock Car Products makes an external wet sump oil pump, it basically looks like a single stage dry sump pump. You retain your wet wump oil pan, so you don't need a remote reservoir. All you have to do is weld a pickup tube and AN bung to your pan, and then use the front or rear oil galley plug as a return. The pump itself isabout the same size as one of the new GM power steering pumps, the kind with the remote power steering reservoir like I am already using.

Admittedly, this would be more difficult on a completely stock setup. I relocated my alternator to the right side. CV Products offers the power steering brackets they use in NASCAR which relocate the power steering pump to the left cylinder head, where the alternator would usually go. Then the dry sump, or external wet sump pump, is mounted where the power steering pump used to be. I think this is the way I'm gonna go. The new power steering bracket is only about $45, and I could still use my custom Stef's oil pan.

88WHITE VETTE

Hey Monty,
Hoerr Racing Products are also have some good stuff for dry sump oil systems and they are close by. http://www.hoerr-racing.com


Ziggy

Monty

Ziggy,

Thanks for the link. I'll probably just get it through Jeff. Now that I have appropriately sized headers (2" stepped to 2 1/8") rather than the too small 1 3/4" headers I used on the dyno, I think that I should be right at about 700hp/600tq, normally aspirated on pump gas, which was my initial goal. Generally, you can pick up as much as 5% when switching from a wet sump to a dry sump, which would be slightly over 30hp for me. At this point, that's not a bad deal. Additionally, my initial investigation into designing my twin turbo setup looks like the placement of the turbos will not lead to adequate drainage via gravity. I could use one of the the suction stages of the dry sump pump to evacuate the turbos.


[Modified by Monty, 8:02 PM 10/24/2001]

88WHITE VETTE

Yea, I know that Jeff can get it for you. I was just thinking that since you mention endurance racing and HRP is specializing in road racing, they could sugest something havy duty.
I know that by going with Jeff you can't go wrong :yesnod:

Did you decide on the Drysump oil tanks yet? HRP is selling tanks from Peterson Fluid Systems. They have 2, 2.5, 3 and 4 gallon tanks. Prices are from $295 ~ $322. They also say to fill them 2/3 full and take that into concideration when ordering. Those are :cool: looking tanks.

Ziggy

Monty

I'm familiar with Peterson, CV Products sells their stuff as well. I still have a bit of investiation to do, trying to fit a remote oil reservoir in a C3 chassis is no easy feat. You saw where I put the remote oil filter, there's not much empty space, plus I have to consider where the turbos and intercooler are going to go. I don't want to have to move the reservoir later on. That's one reason the remote wet sump oil pump is attractive, alot easier plumbing, but you don't get the horsepower/windage benefits, or the turbo scavenging. Sometimes I think I have too many ideas. But I need to do something, as I'm not comfortable with the bronze distributor gear, and would really like to utilize the distributorless ignition and realize its benefits.

Any chance I'll see you out with the car this weekend?

BrianCunningham

could you mold a tank out of fiberglass?

The more you get it to conform the more volume you can get it to hold

redvetracr

Monty,
I haven`t "chimed in" because the modem died in my computer, I know it`s a 20 min. job to change BUT it took Best Buy almost two weeks. Dry sump systems are not all that complicated, I doubt a 4 stage pump will fit in your chassis i have a 3 stage weaver, and my frame was notched (front cross member) Barnes used to make a two stage "in the pan" style for the early sprint cars ( a good simple system).I think they still make the pan and pump rebuild kits but i am not sure if they still make the pump. I think i know where there is a Barnes pan if your interested.The best place to put a tank is where the battery is/was or under the dash on the passenger side, remember that side of the pump is a gravity feed so the oil in the tank needs to be slightly higher than the bottom of the pump. The pumps are super easy to rebuild so you might consider a used one. Unless you are doing some serious road racing racing my opinion is it`s a waste. ...redvetracr

PS It`s also a pain in the butt, I pull the belt and "prime" the system at the start of every day.I also have a tank heater another necessity, in my opinion

Monty

Thanks redvetracr,

I'm sure you're more informed than most on the forum when it comes to this kinda stuff. My main intention is to eliminate the distibutor cam gear, since I am forced to run a bronze distributor gear. No cam company, that I am aware of, offers a cast iron cam gear on a billet cam with BBC cam bearings. I am also eager to run the distributorless ignition which further reduces the need for a cam gear. If I can pick up another 5% in power at this point without adding NO2 or forced induction, yet still maintaining the drivability and pump gas tolerance, I'm interested.

redvetracr

Monty,
I guess that the "Barnes" in the pan style dry sump is out in this case. There is lots of "free" horsepower in an oil pan. You are at the point where all thats left to do are the little but VERY EXPENSIVE things (you should be used to it by now), getting the oil away from the crank is what they consider "free" HP although it ain`t cheap, the wide pan may require a mod to your headers because of where the oil pickups are (unless you find a pan that will work).I went with the reverse mount starter (for a different reason) but without a starter next to the pan i could (but won`t) go to a wider pan. ...redvetracr

dsagers

Take a look at this pump.

http://www.racersauction.com/auction...fm?lotID=15875

Monty

I got I pretty good pan now. I had Stef's make me a custom sheetmetal aluminum pan when I built the motor, it's kicked out to one side, full length teflon coated screen, trap doors, scaper, all that. It's a PITA to install/remove though, because of the kickout one side ofthe pan mount bolts are inside the pan. You have to remove 3 plugs in the pan and use a long extension to access the stud nuts. Anyway, I don't know if the cost of switching over to a dry sump would be worth the power gained. The external wet sump would solve my problem and still allow me to use my existing pan.

redvetracr

Monty,
What am i missing ? (external wet sump?) Never heard of it. I believe Stef`s builds some of the best stuff, they could probably modify your pan, if it`s a "flat bottom" all it would take might be a couple of -12 fittings welded in, I am sure they would take a more professional approach.All the Nascar guys use those deep pans with the pita to get bolts. Remember what i said you are at the point of spending more than your getting back (in results) Because you have done everything else. ...redvetracr

Monty

An external Wet sump pump is basically just like a single stage dry sump pump. Just one suction and one pressure port. It just pulls oil out of the oil pna, via a bung like you described, and then pumps it back into the block, via either the front or rear port. The Dart block I has has 1/2" NPT ports, rather than the smaller 1/4" ports of a production block, so it's a little easier to do. Other than that, it's just a matter of plugging the main cap. Thanks for your insights.

redvetracr

Monty,
If you are going "that far" you might as well go "all the way" I am satisfied with my 3 stage,(1 pressure and two scavenge,out of the pan) You also get the benefit of 3 or 4 gallons of oil. ...redvetracr

Monty

I hear ya, that's why I haven't made up my mind yet.

Where did you put your remote reservoir?

redvetracr

Monty,
I have sent you a pic of the "back end" you may post if you like (or not) unfortunately i have NOT perfected that talent yet! The tank is buried down there where your battery would be,you can just barely see it and as you can see that bulkhead is not exactly "factory" but i can fill it where the neck sticks up on the other side of the sheetmetal. That plastic overflow is gone, replaced with an aluminum vented can and a piece of -12, mounted next to the cell on the left side. ...redvetracr