hello ive been reading up on a sbc build for my 80 vette. i want a 400ci motor done up, but who sells a good core that i can trust. im in VA. any advice would be great.
Location: Error 503 Service Unavailable Guru Meditation, CFOT
They're getting harder and harder to find as time goes on. If anyone's offering them on a regular basis, it'd be news to me. Generally you find them where you can. I'd keep my eyes open for a complete old car that came with one. If you were to run across one, you could either buy the old car for less than the block's worth (assuming it's a rag) or if it was a decent car, you could swap in a 350 and resell the car to break even or maybe even turn a profit.
I have 3 virgin blocks 2 that the cylinders sonic test junk as they are way to thin to get any type of ring seal and the 3rd one has a crack from the cam tunnel to the mains.
Location: Mississauga, Ontario I know all the answers it's the questions I don't understand
Yes they are getting harder and harder to find. Look at it this way though, if they are asking 4-500 bucks for a good one now, then you add cleaning and checking and all machining including line honing and adding ARP main studs you start getting close to the price of a brand new fully machined aftermarket block, like a Dart Little M or Motown
__________________ 1980 Corvette, 427ci Motown SBC 465RWHP N/A so far,500 is the goal, AFR 227 Eliminators
T&D Shaft Rockers,Vic Jr, XR286R solid roller,248/254 dur .640" lift 10.6:1 Mahle pistons
Eagle stroker rods, 4 in. Callies DragonSlayer crank, 825 Drag Race Demon, 3 in exhaust Paint by Dream Car Garage
who sells a good core that i can trust. im in VA. any advice would be great.
A core is a core and used is used. No one knows the condition until it is stripped down and checked. I don't know that there is a reliable (or unreliable, for that matter) supplier of cores. You pays your money and you takes your chances. You may get a gem or you may end up with what BLOCKMAN got.
A core is a core and used is used. No one knows the condition until it is stripped down and checked. I don't know that there is a reliable (or unreliable, for that matter) supplier of cores. You pays your money and you takes your chances. You may get a gem or you may end up with what BLOCKMAN got.
RACE ON!!!
I don't have a dime in these blocks as these were sent to me to machine and check out as these blocks were replaced with a Dart Little-M block which is a much more dependable peice.
hello ive been reading up on a sbc build for my 80 vette. i want a 400ci motor done up, but who sells a good core that i can trust. im in VA. any advice would be great.
After getting my 427 Motown standard deck small block I said to myself that I would never purchase another stock block. Now I'm never going to buy an iron aftermarket block again.
The 427 - 434 small blocks would be hard to beat in cost of modding & machining a splayed cap stock 400
Build a 396 with a 350 block... spend the bad boy block money on 18 or 15 degree heads
and HP building goodies... what is 4 cubic inches going to get you?
While rod length, piston speed, and bore/stroke ratio are icing...
Altered valve angle heads are cake... 600,700,800 hp cake at that..
a conventional headed 400 vs. a 396 w/ properly set up 15 degree
heads???
Not really a contest... the 396/15 will have the 400, even with the
best 23 deg AFR's money can buy by 100 plus ponies..
Some of the Comp Eliminator guys are making 900 hp with small
blocks.... none of them are using 23's..
I'd just like to see some street guys start spending money on the
better HP makers.... my opinion of course..
While rod length, piston speed, and bore/stroke ratio are icing...
Altered valve angle heads are cake... 600,700,800 hp cake at that..
a conventional headed 400 vs. a 396 w/ properly set up 15 degree
heads???
Swap them around. How about a 15°, 406 vs a 23°, 396? The 400 has better base numbers than the 396.
I think you understand my point about the 15 degree heads.. and
the cost per horsepower argument.. $1800 is better spent in altered
angle heads than on a few extra cubes block... the heads trump the cubes..
If both the 396 and 400 are using 23's... the 400 has the advantage
... yes
But my initial statement was dead on.... still is.. alot easier to say
"oops, forgot about the heads" than to push a bad position..
Im not arguing any of your comments about rod length, piston speed,
or bore/stroke ratio... all valid concerns when you're squeezing for
the last few ponies.... but the fact is any 23 degree 400 would be
completely dominated by a 15 or 18 degree 396...
You aren't going to find 100 to 200 horsepower in rods,p-speed, or
bore/stroke.
Last edited by KyleDallas; 12-14-2006 at 10:11 AM.
I've used Ohio Crankshaft for years and never had an issue... top
flight equipment that doesn't break....a small responsive company-
great service.
$455.00
I can go to the local pick-a-part and get a 350 roller motor complete for $75.00.....
By the time I sell the heads, crank, rods, and tbi... I'm money
ahead... heads $150, crank $50, rods $40, tbi $30... that's $270
.... take out my $75.00 block purchase fee and I'm still putting $195
towards the crank....
Total out of pocket for a 350 roller cam block and 3.875 crank after
the sale of extras.. $260.00
Look who's blowing smoke! The same $75.00, or make it $100.00 for a 400, and you don't have to screw around selling off all the parts you can't use. And you get the better bore/stroke and rod/stroke ratios for free. At the least you save the $455.00 back door crankshaft.
Like I said, "The 400 block is a "gimme" compared to a forged, 3.875" crank. A 15° (or a 23°) 400 will be less expensive than a 15° (or 23°) 396.".
Look who's blowing smoke! The same $75.00, or make it $100.00 for a 400, and you don't have to screw around selling off all the parts you can't use. And you get the better bore/stroke and rod/stroke ratios for free. At the least you save the $455.00 back door crankshaft.
Like I said, "The 400 block is a "gimme" compared to a forged, 3.875" crank. A 15° (or a 23°) 400 will be less expensive than a 15° (or 23°) 396.".
RACE ON!!!
I really don't know why anyone would bother to get a 400 and run the stock heads and crank.. that's a waste of time.. and no one will buy those "steam holer" heads. I think you are just looking to argue at this point.
The 350 heads I would definately sell will out flow the steam holers
you would keep... so I think we are miles apart on what we think
is valueable. 383's and 400's without heads will struggle to make
500hp.. alot of guys think cubes are the majic pill and forget the heads
...... they end up getting toasted by those who know better.
It's the heads, mainly, that allow 358 cubic inch NASCAR motors
to make 800hp.
Here is where I get my $75 dollar complete engine cores in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area....
My total cost on my 396 engines have been less than the 400's
I've built...... using the philosophies I've described.. I've gotten
more HP per dollar and stopped having thin wall problems, core shift problems, lack of supply problems, and time wasting searching for
good block problems.
There are alot of guys spending $1800 on Motown blocks...
I prefer to go to RacingJunk.com and spend that same money on
good used Altered angle heads. I helped a buddy put together an 18 degree 396 for a little over $2500.00 that made over 680hp... with new
forged internals and used heads.
here are some complete 15 degree Brodix heads on Racing Junk right now for $2000 obo (probably $1500)... follow link
Though you always have to be careful when buying used parts..
heads usually take less of a beating than internals... and so far
this has been a very successful avenue for my friends and me.
Location: So Cal- - Defend your ideas with facts. Not personal attacks.
Repair block cracks with brazing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BLOCKMAN
I have 3 virgin blocks 2 that the cylinders sonic test junk as they are way to thin to get any type of ring seal and the 3rd one has a crack from the cam tunnel to the mains.
All them are free for the taking
Just curious but can't u weld or braze the cracked block. Maybe access for welding or brazing is too tight on that block. But having brazed a few items recently i'll say it's much simpler than welding while it can be just as strong in shear applications. Like flowing the brass filler to fill the crack and then braze a steel plate over the crack to prevent movement. 2 hrs max.
Or possible carbon arc out the crack for a groove and just stick weld it shut again - but u need enough room to do this. Again 2 hrs work.
Its really ashame u can't sleeve a 400" block but as u have posted before against this i will take your word as the truth on this BLOCKMAN. Its just that with some block filler in the wtr jackets i would expect u could stabilze any sleeve but again i don't have any experince with the 400" to know or say different.
As far as the 400" vs 396" debate i expect everyone gets better at sourcing parts the more eng's they build and nearly everyone has different requirements for thier application. But i do like the 396" idea with a hyd roller as a low cost alternative. Myself, i can still find the 400" motors at the pick yer own boneyards for only $200 but whats funny is the '86 & later hyd roller engs ain't much there yet.
But like Kyle says too many hobbiests are focused on the 400" when after all the machining details on a 400" deck (wtr passages) and mains (2 to 4 bolt) - not to mention a hyd roller retrofit - are done, a 396" may well be out and running sooner for less $$$ and making just as much or more hp.
Now the man that just wants to run a short flat tappet cam and is patient enough for that lo mi 400" with a good "enough" crank for 400+ hp waiting for someone to get it out'a thier neihbors/friends garage - gonn'a have the best deal. But then if u want 500+ hp today u gonn'a pay a few $$ more.
Interesting comparison.
cardo0
__________________
74 T-top, L-48, 4spd, A/C, narly blue. Goodwrench 350 underwent new heads (SR Torquers), Schneider solid cam and Thorley headers due to domino effect of broken motor mount >broken fan shroud>remove radiator & A/C package. Now runs a Performer Air Gap with a lars majic chokeless Qjet on top. Also Street dampner, MSD dist, 6AL and Baster II. http://members.cardomain.com/cardo0
Just curious but can't u weld or braze the cracked block. Maybe access for welding or brazing is too tight on that block. But having brazed a few items recently i'll say it's much simpler than welding while it can be just as strong in shear applications. Like flowing the brass filler to fill the crack and then braze a steel plate over the crack to prevent movement. 2 hrs max.
Or possible carbon arc out the crack for a groove and just stick weld it shut again - but u need enough room to do this. Again 2 hrs work.
Its really ashame u can't sleeve a 400" block but as u have posted before against this i will take your word as the truth on this BLOCKMAN. Its just that with some block filler in the wtr jackets i would expect u could stabilze any sleeve but again i don't have any experince with the 400" to know or say different.
As far as the 400" vs 396" debate i expect everyone gets better at sourcing parts the more eng's they build and nearly everyone has different requirements for thier application. But i do like the 396" idea with a hyd roller as a low cost alternative. Myself, i can still find the 400" motors at the pick yer own boneyards for only $200 but whats funny is the '86 & later hyd roller engs ain't much there yet.
But like Kyle says too many hobbiests are focused on the 400" when after all the machining details on a 400" deck (wtr passages) and mains (2 to 4 bolt) - not to mention a hyd roller retrofit - are done, a 396" may well be out and running sooner for less $$$ and making just as much or more hp.
Now the man that just wants to run a short flat tappet cam and is patient enough for that lo mi 400" with a good "enough" crank for 400+ hp waiting for someone to get it out'a thier neihbors/friends garage - gonn'a have the best deal. But then if u want 500+ hp today u gonn'a pay a few $$ more.
Interesting comparison.
cardo0
Welding the main webbing of a block is a high stress area and you would need a 100% penatration and it looks like it would be a hard area to get at and with all the heat you would need to do the job it may crack some where else form alll the heat.
And a sfar as sleeveing 400 blocks we have done that and we see alot of distortion on the cylinders on each side of the sleeved cylinders and thay are more prone to crack next to the head bolt hole and where the step is left in the bottom of the cylinder to hold the sleeve we have seen one crack from the step down to the mains as was posted on another site no one garantees putting sleeves in a 400 block.
I have a few of the 86 up blocks in the shop and a lot of the circle track guys we build engines for use them as they are lighter then the older block and we use an adaptor to use the 2 peice rear seal cranks. When the Tanawanda plant mover to Mexico we bought 26 block out of that plant P/N 10105123 as these were the best blocks I have seen as far as cylinder bore locations as were able to bore all these blocks to blue print.
We have a 400 block in the shop we are machining for another shop puttin on billet main caps and straping the rear main cap, decking, boring and plate honing as this block is crack free and has good cylinder walls for a 400 block. Bur we will see how it lasts .
Location: So Cal- - Defend your ideas with facts. Not personal attacks.
Welding the main webbing of a block is a high stress area and you would need a 100% penatration and it looks like it would be a hard area to get at and with all the heat you would need to do the job it may crack some where else form alll the heat.
But thats the advantage of brazing is it will flow to fill and uses lower heat for much less distortion. But to give it strength a steel plate needs to be brazed on top and stradle the crack - great strength to prevent/stop any movement. Well just a thought if it could save a 400" block for <$100.
I have a few of the 86 up blocks in the shop and a lot of the circle track guys we build engines for use them as they are lighter then the older block and we use an adaptor to use the 2 peice rear seal cranks. When the Tanawanda plant mover to Mexico we bought 26 block out of that plant P/N 10105123 as these were the best blocks I have seen as far as cylinder bore locations as were able to bore all these blocks to blue print.
2 yrs ago i saw a semi-trailer full of brand new roller cam blocks at Pamona swapmeet selling for $400/$500 a block or $1000 with 3.48" single piece seal crank with pistons, and vortec heads - but no rods. Too bad we can't get those kind'a deals every day - no tax and free shipping if ya got the p.u. there.
Yea after i read in the chevy power manual the 2 piece rear seal conversion was an upgrade for strength i wondered how much it would cost. Too much machine work could make that Dart little-M more reasonable. But i expect the 2 piece conversion is more of an full race or race only application while a street fighter may live on fine with the original 1 piece seal and smaller crank/flywheel bolt pattern.
Well thx for sharing BLOCKMAN as your experience here answers a lot of questions and may save us a lot of $$$ or headaches.
Corvette Store
where to find 400sbc core
Myself, i can still find the 400" motors at the pick yer own boneyards for only $200 but whats funny is the '86 & later hyd roller engs ain't much there yet.
