bowtie racing

Hello !

I am planning this set up for a friends 91 6speed.new motown 427 "small" heads for high torque and overall driveability. Intake would be TPIS miniram ,and maybe TPIS ZZ9 hyd roller cam. plese recomend me a cylinderheads for this set up (MONTY?).we are looking for 500 hp around 6000 rpm ,and this car is a daily driver ! Could Fastburns or new edelbrock E tec 200 heads work? then i could use new MINIRAM 3 vortec manifold

thanks Joni

Matt_91Z

If you're set on a TPIS cam, you might want to look at the ZZ409. Also, if TPIS can get 450HP from a 350/ZZ4 build-up with Fastburn heads, ZZ409 cam, and MiniRam III, you surely can make more than 500HP with the 427 Motown.

However, I bet Monty can recommend a profile better suited to a 427 and having Comp Cams grind it will probably be cheaper than buying it from TPIS.

For Heads. My suggestion, look into the Brodix 18* heads. They have the flow benefits of 18* heads with the valvetrain benefits of standard 23* heads. Also, check out the Accell Pro-Ram or a Victor Jr. manifold converted to EFI for your intake. I think the distribution and flow will be better overall than wtih the MiniRam.

This set-up would be my choice for a replacement engine.

Matt

gkull

I would just like to say in the friendliest way, but I believe that your looking it at it wrong. It takes a big heart and lungs to run a 427. 427 vs 350 The 427 will make vastly more torque across the whole rpm scale. What would be overkill on a 350 makes for a mild 427. So you need big cam, heads, and intake.

You can't really look at a 427 as a 20% ci change. Your TQ numbers can easily go 25% more. I was suprized at the change from 355 to just 383.

Monty

First, like GKull mentioned, you have to 'forget' that you're working with a small block. I would recommend heads with at least 220cc intake runner volume, and the biggest valves that will fit. Matt_91Z's recommendation of the Brodix 18x heads is a very good one. You get most of the benefits of the 18* heads, including 320+ cfm intake flow, but you can use standard 23* valvetrain components. I'm not sure whast the intake or exhaust manifold requirements are. Might want to call Brodix to get the specifics if you're interested.

The AFR215RR, 220, and 227 would be nice options as well. All of them flow 300+ cfm. I'd bet with any of those heads, plus a nice cam would make 550 ft lbs and 550 hp. I went through 4 cams on the dyno, and each time I installed a bigger cam, hp and tq went up across the board, at all rpms. The biggest cam made more low end torque than any of the smaller one's. I ended up with a 256/264, 112LSA cam, but I bet I could up the duration even more and gain power/tq across the board. You didn't mention what type of engine management you're gonna use, but if it's programmable, you can get away with alot of cam and still have excellent idle and throttle response.

It's hard to have too much head and cam on one of these big, small blocks. SBC heads are the bottle neck.

I also think Matt's recommendation for converting a single plane manifold is a good one. I was going to use the Miniram too, but after doing some research realized that it may not be the best alternative. I've seen a couple of other SBC 427/434's that used a Miniram. In those cases the Miniram required extenive modifications to get the necessary flow, inlucing cutting the thing in half, porting it, and then rewelding it together. By the time it's all said and done, you could get a custom manifold like I did from Hogan's. Also, if you chose to use 18* heads, or raised runner heads, there are plenty of affordable single plane manifolds that bolt right on. Just ahve a machine shop or EFI specialist weld some injector bungs, and use a Dominator style, 4 barrel EFI throttle body. My machinist and I both think I probably would've picked up some power by going this route rather than using a forward mounted EFI throttle body. The 90* turn form the plenum into the runners hinders airflow, compared to a single plane design.

As for cams, Comp will grind you any custom cam for $275. I;d bet that's cheaper than the TPIS cams, plus you can choose from a plethora of cam lobe profiles. Call up Comp after you buy your heads(it's best to know the flow of your heads first), and know your CR, and get a recommendation from them.

I really don't think 500hp is a problem at all with a 427. It's not very difficult to amke 1.2hp/ci with a good set of aluminum heads anc a decent roller cam. Put some thought into the combo, and you can get 1.5hp/ci.

Good Luck!

StingrayRacing

For a comparison, my 383 made 540hp/510tq on the engine dyno.

I'm running AFR210's fully ported with 2.08/1.60 valves and a Brodix HV1000 single plane converted to EFI with a 1200cfm throttle body.

Cam is a Crower mechanical roller
112 LC, 280/288 Adv, 246/247 @ 050, 524/552 lift w/1.5 ratio( I use 1.6's)

You can definitely get away with bigger heads and not lose tq since its a 427 as Matt, GKull & Monty have already suggested.

bowtie racing

Hello friends!

First i liked to thank all of you for good ideas,and Monty i was hoping at you reply..

Okey,let me tell you first few things,the reason to 427 is simple,We (owner of the car and i ) liked to get as much power out of it with Stalth /sleeper look and sound. So il ked to stay away from big cams wich could be "heard" and underhood wiew should be as original as possible. I think most people cant tell is it Mini ram or LT1 intake when performing some camouflage... and thats why i prefer heads wich have centerbolt valvecover mounting.

And reason to go with tpis cams is i was hoping they were desinged for Miniram ??

As for engine management ,i will use HALTECH ecu wich is a BOLT ON for original harness,again immpossible to trace..

And sorry to say there is a budget for all this ,remember EVERYTHING wich comes here get at least 30% tax... so 18* heads are out..

Lets think if i go for AFR 220,get em ported here,Miniram and good set of headers is there an easy and reliable 500 hp?

Thanks ,Joni

To keep the car dailydriver

Monty

In that case, I'd go with the AFR 227cc heads with the Miniram or either a converted Vivtor Jr or Super Victor. You can use any manifold which will work with a FelPro 1206 intake gasket. Iw ould think a converted single plan would be more stealth than a MiniRam. put a big k&N airfilter ontop of the the carb-like throttle body, and the injectors and fuel rails will be more hidden than they are with a Miniram. It would be cheaper too, and arguably, provide better performance.

I'd still consider a cam other than the TPIS cam though. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with their cams, and as you mentioned, it's designed for the Miniram. However, I'd be willing to bet their cam is designed with a 350-383 in mind. That big 427 will tame alot of cam. As I mentioned, I'm running a 256/264 cam, and it idles smoothly at 850 rpm. There's not a whole lot of lope to it. Plus that Haltec will tame it too.

gkull

I would recommend the Weiand Team G single plane over the Edelbrocks. I bought three single plane manifolds to compare each one. The Team G won, because smaller plenum and it was out of the box a nearly perfect 1206 gasket match. Both Edl. manifolds would be many man hours to do a port match job.

My motor sounds so mild that it would be hard to convince anybody that it has any power at all. 850 rpm and nearly 16 inches of manifold vacuum. Dart Pro1 heads with porting to 225 cc and I made the choice to use 2.08/1.625 valves over 2.10/1.6 I went with mild duration compared to Monty or StingRay 238/246 112 lc and .635/.644 Solid roller.

There are also valid arguments for higher intake than exhaust lift. I'm from the old school that believes because the intake valve is generally larger it is putting more strain on the other components.

As I said before I only have a 383. I have also put over 4000 miles on it in four months. It's no problem for me to drive a 1000 mile round trip on a weekend.

[This message has been edited by gkull (edited 07-31-2001).]

AKS Racing

As stated earlier in your post to stay with centerbolt valve covers. AFR 220s require shaft rockers, which preclude use of factory type center bolt valve covers. The largest AFR's that you can run and maintain factory appearance are the AFR 210s. You can have these competion ported by AFR for an additional $374 and get numbers that are similar if not superior to the AFR220RRs. I just went through this same exercise.

I would also recommend the CC tight lash solid rollers, as they will make more power and really don't sound much noisier than a really healthy hydraulic roller. Tight lash cams range from about 14 - 20 thousandths lash.

Best of luck,

Aaron

Monty

AKS, I ran AFR220's on my old 383, and they DO NOT require shaft mounted rockers. The only AFR 23* heads wich require shaft mounted rockers are the AFR215cc Raised Runner Heads( shaft mounted rockers with a .450" offset on the intake and a .150" or .180" offset lifter). Even the AFR 227 Racing Head uses standard rockers arms, but require an offset stud girdle.

AFR220 Heads:
"The powerful AFR 220cc intake port small block Chevy angle plug cylinder heads are available in three stages of performance. The Race Ready version features 70% CNC ported intakes while the higher flowing Competition version features 100% CNC ported intakes. Both come with 100% CNC ported 76cc combustion chambers and 80cc exhaust ports with a 3/4" thick head deck (ideal for nitrous or blower applications.) In addition we also offer the "as cast" Stage 1 heads for 220cc performance on a budget. Standard valves are 2.080 intake and 1.600 exhaust with AFR's hardened ductile iron interlocking valve seats. The exceptional flow characteristics, 23º valve angle, and standard valve spacing make this the perfect head for 350 to 434 cid engines in drag cars, sprint cars, and late model oval trackers operating between 4500 and 8500 rpm. The 220cc heads are available in either standard or spread port exhaust. Straight plug versions are special order only. No special parts required."

"Specifications, Features, and Supporting Components
Head Torque: 65-70 Ft. Lbs.
Rocker Stud Torque: 55-60 Ft. Lbs.
Intake Port Gasket: 1.310" x 2.180", Fel Pro #1206, AFR #6820
Exhaust Port Gasket: Fel Pro #1406, AFR #6835
Head Gasket: 350cid Fel Pro #1010, AFR #6805; 400cid Fel Pro #1014, AFR #6802
Head Bolts & Studs: Standard ARP, AFR #6310 & #6305
Head Bolt Washers: Manley, AFR #6320
Stud Girdle: AFR #6201
Suggested Manifold: Victor Jr or Super Victor, AFR #5005 & #5003
Spark Plug Starting Range: Autolite 3910
Combustion Chambers: 76cc
Spring Pocket can be cut to 1.750, no deeper.
Valve Spacing Standard
Rocker Arms Standard
Valve Angle: 23º
Angle Mill (milling available) .008" per cc
Flat Mill (milling available) .006" per cc
Pushrods: 5/16" Hardened, AFR #6601 thru #6604"

cajun86

I know this is off the subject (forgive me) but had to tell gkull that his C3 is one slick lookin car....