Traction was terrible yesterday! (See cool/scary Video)
#1
Melting Slicks
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Traction was terrible yesterday! (See cool/scary Video)
Well yesterday was extremely hot (3000+DA) and the track was very slick. It was especially slick mid track. All day I was breaking the tires loose at the top of 2nd and 3rd on the juice. On this particular run (1st round of the Q4), it really got scary.
As you will see, once I really got into the powerband in second gear the wheels broke loose and the car slid sideways. You can actually see the tire marks on the track from my wheels spinning. Then I backed off and the car bit and lurched the other way. I then got it into 3rd and hit it again and the tires broke loose again! :eek: Now remember this is at about 100+mph!
Several of us complained about the traction but the track did not take any action.
Poor Traction run
On my first run early in the day I was able to run a 10.03@142 with an all time best 1.47 short time. Too bad that even on this run the car was all over the track and I had to get out of it twice in 2nd and 3rd because of poor traction!
Great launch but poor traction up top
[Modified by boweryboy, 1:59 PM 7/28/2003]
As you will see, once I really got into the powerband in second gear the wheels broke loose and the car slid sideways. You can actually see the tire marks on the track from my wheels spinning. Then I backed off and the car bit and lurched the other way. I then got it into 3rd and hit it again and the tires broke loose again! :eek: Now remember this is at about 100+mph!
Several of us complained about the traction but the track did not take any action.
Poor Traction run
On my first run early in the day I was able to run a 10.03@142 with an all time best 1.47 short time. Too bad that even on this run the car was all over the track and I had to get out of it twice in 2nd and 3rd because of poor traction!
Great launch but poor traction up top
[Modified by boweryboy, 1:59 PM 7/28/2003]
#2
Melting Slicks
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Re: Traction was terrible yesterday! (boweryboy)
:eek: Bill on the first video it looked like you spun the entire track I dont blame you for not spraying it after that!
#3
Team Owner
Re: Traction was terrible yesterday! (boweryboy)
We talked about the traction up in the tower and I'm learning more how traction and VHT work. There really wasn't much the could do but rescrap the track, scrub and apply new VHT, at a cost af about 40 minutes down time and $700 in VHT and in most cases that would have lasted about 10 runs with street tires. The street tires are tearing up the track, instead of laying rubber like a slick or even a drag radial it peels up the track surface ans the VHT along with it. The biggest problem I see for most of our faster car, is Saturday is a streetday, and we are no longer running street times, The combination of street tires on cars running high 12. to 14.0 takes away from the faster car that need the extra traction and the hotter weather makes it worse. I have answers but noone really wants to hear them right now but I do have a game plan if I see where the faster cars are becomeing unsafe to race and it looks like that where we are headed.
#4
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Re: Traction was terrible yesterday! (mackeyred96)
i hear you the only run i hooked all day was my first pass it was like test and tune on a weeknite back home if they dont treat the track no traction :cheers:
#5
Former Vendor
Re: Traction was terrible yesterday! (CORKVETTE1)
Funny you brought this up. ;) I was just emailing edgar and expressing my concerns for the same thing. The traction really sucked Saturday.
Same as Corky the first time out was the only time I hooked up.
My 60' times 1/4 ETs were as follows. I was running through my exhaust hence the slower than normal ETs.
1.52 11.3@118
1.67 11.5@118 This and the next runs were the worst 60' times I have ever run with this setup)
1.70 11.7@119 (this one the same thing you descibe happened to me. I got out of it and back into it and still it was shakey)
1.52 11.3@116 (dialed an 11.5 as I had no idea what ET to put with the way traction was. As luck would have it, I hooked decent and broke out naturally on the brakes hard at the end).
What I suggested to Edgar and maybe its not 100% feasible is that all the street tired cars run in one lane, and the slick cars in the other.
The problems with that is that when it comes down to the end of the challenges or when there only remain slick cars someone is gonna get screwed unfortunately, so i don't know if there is an easy answer.
You guys really have a great thing going out there. Its just a shame we can't have the best of both worlds.
For some of us long distance travels, other than the friendly folks and seeing all the other other cars its tough to justify the trip out. It just seems that the more power you have, the more at a disadvantage the track becomes.
All in all though you guys have done amazing at coordinating such a HUGE event! It really is fun to attend. Wish I could have stayed for the second event as well. :cheers: :thumbs:
Same as Corky the first time out was the only time I hooked up.
My 60' times 1/4 ETs were as follows. I was running through my exhaust hence the slower than normal ETs.
1.52 11.3@118
1.67 11.5@118 This and the next runs were the worst 60' times I have ever run with this setup)
1.70 11.7@119 (this one the same thing you descibe happened to me. I got out of it and back into it and still it was shakey)
1.52 11.3@116 (dialed an 11.5 as I had no idea what ET to put with the way traction was. As luck would have it, I hooked decent and broke out naturally on the brakes hard at the end).
What I suggested to Edgar and maybe its not 100% feasible is that all the street tired cars run in one lane, and the slick cars in the other.
The problems with that is that when it comes down to the end of the challenges or when there only remain slick cars someone is gonna get screwed unfortunately, so i don't know if there is an easy answer.
You guys really have a great thing going out there. Its just a shame we can't have the best of both worlds.
For some of us long distance travels, other than the friendly folks and seeing all the other other cars its tough to justify the trip out. It just seems that the more power you have, the more at a disadvantage the track becomes.
All in all though you guys have done amazing at coordinating such a HUGE event! It really is fun to attend. Wish I could have stayed for the second event as well. :cheers: :thumbs:
#6
Le Mans Master
Re: Traction was terrible yesterday! (ski_dwn_it)
John, i think we all understand that extremely hot days with lots of street cars is not going to add up to great traction. What frustrates me tho, is when the track just gives up. There were TWO different events Saturday, and i think they should have reprepped the track between them. Especially since there were multiple points races going on in the afternoon. As far as the cost and time, shouldn't the track expect to prep the surface at least once per event? If they re-prepped and things deteriorated as the event progressed, i dont think there's anything more anyone should expect, but just writing us off shows a lack of respect.
#8
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Re: Traction was terrible yesterday! (boweryboy)
It's the same here in South Florida ..just miserable track conditions..I've all but given up on racing until the cooler weather comes in October-Novemebr..I can't stand runnin' in this soupy humid air ..Great effort though!! :smash:
#9
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Re: Traction was terrible yesterday! (ski_dwn_it)
I agree with ralph this problem didnt just happen in the afternoon, by first round in the morning the track was shot... Not only is this dangerous but we pay good money to race and like we all know we bring good buisness. I am sure nobody would of cared if there was 40 min or so break in between events so they can prep the track. It was like trying to lauch off ice.. Hopefully next time we will get a little consideration.........................
#11
Re: Traction was terrible yesterday! (MITCH)
700 bucks. that is all. please :rolleyes: The event is the second largest at the park,they dont even pay out like most tracks. Then they do this to save money. All this after the corvette races have the most expensive entrance fee. :rolleyes:
My father went to the tiny track Esta dragway, and they had a supercharger shootout with a $2000 payout. Guess what. It was 15 bucks to enter, and only 5 cars showed up. The winner took 2000 bucks home after only 3 rounds of bracket racing. Raceway park must be doing something with all that money. The smaller tracks dont even have the support of the Pros coming to town or many sponsors. What is going on here. By the way, there is a $1000 dollar race at Esta soon. http://www.estadrags.com
[Modified by QuickVet, 8:19 PM 7/28/2003]
My father went to the tiny track Esta dragway, and they had a supercharger shootout with a $2000 payout. Guess what. It was 15 bucks to enter, and only 5 cars showed up. The winner took 2000 bucks home after only 3 rounds of bracket racing. Raceway park must be doing something with all that money. The smaller tracks dont even have the support of the Pros coming to town or many sponsors. What is going on here. By the way, there is a $1000 dollar race at Esta soon. http://www.estadrags.com
[Modified by QuickVet, 8:19 PM 7/28/2003]
#13
Team Owner
Re: Traction was terrible yesterday! (boweryboy)
I'm going to foward this post to David and let him read your concerns. WE all know this is a big problem, we have this everytime we get a large group of street tired cars. I don't know what the answer is, My car won't hook under those conditions eather and I have the same problems but I adjust for this. I know of many racers that that have nitrous just incase the spin.
As I said earler some of our cars may be going to fast for the average Saturday program with all the street tires.
As I said earler some of our cars may be going to fast for the average Saturday program with all the street tires.
#14
Race Director
Re: Traction was terrible yesterday! (mackeyred96)
I know Raceway park has very wide lanes, & a few years ago they used to have the street tired cars stay to the outside of each lane, & the Slick, & DR cars stay toward to center..
One of the guys near the water box would just look at your tires, & point you to the inside or outside...
Is this out of the question ?
One of the guys near the water box would just look at your tires, & point you to the inside or outside...
Is this out of the question ?
#15
Re: Traction was terrible yesterday! (Red96Coupe)
I know Raceway park has very wide lanes, & a few years ago they used to have the street tired cars stay to the outside of each lane, & the Slick, & DR cars stay toward to center..
One of the guys near the water box would just look at your tires, & point you to the inside or outside...
Is this out of the question ?
One of the guys near the water box would just look at your tires, & point you to the inside or outside...
Is this out of the question ?
#16
Team Owner
Re: Traction was terrible yesterday! (QuickVet)
jp, i've been trying to get that for awhile just to see if it would work but
I don't think they like the idea of you running that close to the wall and to be fair now you'll have racers with the ET STREET AND DRAG SLICKS yelling that Drag Radials should race in the lanes with the street tires because they are D.O.T. and treated, then what do you do where do you draw the line and where do you put the front wheel drive car???
You've got to look at the BIG PICTURE it's not that easy.
I don't think they like the idea of you running that close to the wall and to be fair now you'll have racers with the ET STREET AND DRAG SLICKS yelling that Drag Radials should race in the lanes with the street tires because they are D.O.T. and treated, then what do you do where do you draw the line and where do you put the front wheel drive car???
You've got to look at the BIG PICTURE it's not that easy.
#17
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Re: Traction was terrible yesterday! (boweryboy)
Interesting angle on the second video. I wonder who shot that:D
Traction was tough even my SLEDGAR car. I only hooked up decent twice. First run and last run (break out)
Traction was tough even my SLEDGAR car. I only hooked up decent twice. First run and last run (break out)
#18
Team Owner
Re: Traction was terrible yesterday! (REDGAR)
But you have learned to made adjustments and you went 4 rounds??
You got to race on the rtack that is there on that given day.
You got to race on the rtack that is there on that given day.
#19
Re: Traction was terrible yesterday! (mackeyred96)
jp, i've been trying to get that for awhile just to see if it would work but
I don't think they like the idea of you running that close to the wall and to be fair now you'll have racers with the ET STREET AND DRAG SLICKS yelling that Drag Radials should race in the lanes with the street tires because they are D.O.T. and treated, then what do you do where do you draw the line and where do you put the front wheel drive car???
You've got to look at the BIG PICTURE it's not that easy.
I don't think they like the idea of you running that close to the wall and to be fair now you'll have racers with the ET STREET AND DRAG SLICKS yelling that Drag Radials should race in the lanes with the street tires because they are D.O.T. and treated, then what do you do where do you draw the line and where do you put the front wheel drive car???
You've got to look at the BIG PICTURE it's not that easy.
[Modified by QuickVet, 9:57 PM 7/28/2003]