mackeyred96

As we see street legal Vetts now running mid 9"s with ease, at speed over 140 MHP I'm wondering if we have gone to far. Sure everyone wants to go faster and we all reward racers for doing so but have we reach a fine line where we may just be on the ragged edge for some race to control at car at these speeds. I know some will say "Heck i drive that fast on the street" and I'm sure that many do but just how in control are we. I know we preach safety and most have done a super job getting legal for the speed they run but as I said in the begining "HOW FAST IS TO FAST?
I want to hear your comments.

TEK WARRIOR

John,As far as being in control of my car at those speeds go,I can tell you that my car is very stable at the top end and is definitely a bear for the first 1/8th mile,although by looking at the videos of my car you wouldn't know it,it looks like it's going straight as an arrow.From the videos I've seen of some 6-speed nitrous C5's,they are all over the track.I have driven other 9-second cars and they were not as stable as my C5 Vette.I do think the C5 is at it's limit as a drag car,in the mid to high nine second range,from a reliability factor,I'd rather make 25 or 30 9.70-9.90 passes throughout the year than break my car apart trying to run sub 9.50's.The transaxle and independent rear just aren't going to cut it at that level.

The Green Rocket

John, I too wonder about that sort of thing. On another forum I participate in a young newbie was asking for advice on making a street car capable of 8.90's. If he were an experienced racer I wouldn't have been bothered, but this was to be like his first(!) fast car. I told him that I refused because I didn't want to be a part of helping his parents to bury their child. Nobody wants to start with a 14 or 13 second car anymore - too many want 11's or better the first time out. A fast car is not necessarily dangerous, the problem lies in what happens when the inexperienced driver gets out of the groove. Power can be fun, but it must be respected.

In many ways the advancement of technology has allowed the almost unthinkable streetable 9 second car to start becoming common (enough). What many newcomers are unaware of is that every single year a certain number of racers die at track events (even more die in street stupidity), its not a statistic that racing promoters like to talk about.

What really does bother me is the people who build a bullet of a car, but can't be troubled to spend any money on safety equipment. In the latest issue of GMHTP there is a 9 second Firebird with no roll cage! He runs at River City Raceway, which apparently only requires helmets. The car owner says "Besides, if I add a roll cage it wouldn't really be a street car anymore", translated means: I like to make money street racing - and I'm willing to risk my life for lack of safety equipment. Now that bothers me.

Darwin award winners need not reply.

Thomas

REDGAR

I have to say too fast is hard to determine. We all want to see and have fast cars. This is what makes pro racing popular with 4 second fuel cars.

Fast enough is easier for me to determine.

I am quite comfortable with my car's last performance in the low 120's. I think that is fast enough for me.

1996LT1

To quote James Taylor's character "Driver" from the movie Two Lane Blacktop...........


"You can never go fast enough"


:D :D :D :D :D

tomdcarguy

Well I'm still young so this is how I look at things....

There is no such thing as Santa
There is no such thing as Extra Money
and..
There is no such thing as TOO FAST!!

If I had a deep pocket...wow I can't even imagine!! :crazy:
But eventually, after you break your car every weekend... I guess thats the closest thing to "TOO FAST". As far as saftey goes..I think the technologies applied today keep the sport safe.

scool93535

I admire the technology that lets someone build a 9 second car that can be driven on the street AND meet emission requirements.

I would enjoy such a car BUT, reserve exersizing it to the track. The average person or gran ma or pa have no experience in dealing with a car coming at them at 140 MPH. Odds are they will do the unexpected.

Did anyone see last weeks races where two pro stock cars crossed the finish line upside down. These were experienced racers that lost it because of track conditions. What's your GF, wife, mother, father going to do when some one blast by them at 140???? The pro stockers were lucky, good safety equiptment and emergency responders right on the scene.

Build it, drive it safely and, race it; only on the track.

Just my .02.

:cheers:

J Z06

I've only been to 119 mph in the 1/4(that was in 1995) that was cruisin'! I talked to myself for a half hour after that run(11.55 was the e.t). I can't imagine the rush of adrenaline these guys are feeling going 130+.

I watched my previous mustang rip off a 7.48@183 from the starting line. I'll stick to the 11's :D

0ski_dwn_it

As some have already said, Its tough to determine when your too fast. Speaking from my experience with my car, and its not the fastest thing around, but off the line its very hairly and at the top end you can tell your flyin, but its very stable. By the time I leave off I am going close to ~128-130 and you can tell your flyin, but still well in control. Granted I wouldn't send my wife out in it to take down the strip for a first time run, its something that I worked into and am comfortable with. But along with the speed *should* come preperation.

This past weekend I spent:

Friday night 3pm-11pm
Saturday 4pm - 9pm
and then again after the races on Monday 4pm-8pm going over the car to make sure everything was OK before and after the race. I believe in that if you want to go fast and live, you better invest the time to make sure everything is OK.

I would rather see people have an outlet to go 140MPH if they have that need in a stright 1/4 mile track, with safety regs governing the equipment they must have, rather than 140+ MPH on the street with my Wife and 3 kids coming the other way past them.

But yes the cars nowdays are getting extremely quick with just sneezing at them. I showed a local speed shop owner around here my time slips from the car. They used to have the national record with their late model camero. It will like high 11s. He about fell over with disbelief. Technology and money are the driving forces behind some awesome power plants. :cheers:

TLewis4095

For the C5 I agree w/Tek Warrior. We need to know our limits, andas a race team owner we see wrecks at the strip far to often. I have been 164 @ 8.18, but it scared the heck out of me and it was in our dragster which is a heck of alot easier & more stable to run 7-8 seconds in than a door car. A 9 sec C5 is about the limit (self imposed) I hope! :cheers:

Allthrottleandsomebottle

First, It never bothered me before being on the ragged edge to find the max perfomance........today looking at the big picture in general, I believe anything quicker than mid 12's @ 110mph is the max for total control on then strip/street/roadcourse/xcross etc......anything faster and ya just can't react quick enough........ I hear a lot of "Damn, that was close, almost lost it"....... :D

mackeyred96

Great stuff guys, keep it coming :thumbs:

mackeyred96

:thumbs:

boweryboy

I'll let you know when I get there ;)

Beach Bum

When I was younger I didn't understand or agree with the NHRA mandated safety rules, but after racing for many years and seeing a variety of things happen, I agree with them. I saw a 16 second Toyota truck at the track loose its front ujoint, because there was no driveshaft loop, the vehicle literally pole vaulted on the driveshaft, it didn't flip over, but was a miracle it didn't... it road one side of the vehicle and back to the other.

I think speed is a sickness.... you can never have enough, you may set your goals at breaking into the 11's, once you do that, then all you can think about is low 11's.... once you do it that, then all you can think about is a 10.999, and so on....How safe is it to run in the 9's ? Unfortunately I wouldn't know, and doubt I ever get that fast, but at that speed you better have safety equipment.... I wouldn't want to race next to the 9 second car that doesn't. But I think how fast is too fast is more about how smart the driver is.... some don't know when to give up on a pass.

On another note.... I personally have never seen a 9 second true street car here in Southern California.... I'm sure they exist, just never seen them myself.

cheers,
Beach Bum

gary brown

John - this is a great topic - and rather timely given what happened last weekend in Columbus - and most other tracks as well.

I have been reading everyone's posts here with a lot of interest. My own preliminary thoughts on the subject go something like this:

1. Too fast is pretty subjective. John Force going 300+ mph in under five seconds may not be "too fast" given his training, experience, and safety equipment.

2. Some young kid in a 10-second car that is twice as slow as Force's car may be too fast if he doesn't have the experience, safety equipment, and judgement that comes with driving that quickly.

When I really think about it, here are what I believe are some of the variables that can significantly determine what could lead someone to be driving "too fast":

Experience level of the driver.
Judgement of the driver.
Current medical and psychological state of the driver.
Mechanical and safety condition of the car.
Track conditions.
Weather conditions.

I remember when I finally broke into the 11's last year. The first pass I made, the car hooked solid and stayed that way for the entire 1320 feet. I had NEVER made a pass that fast before and it DID feel different, even though I didn't know what my actual e.t. was until I picked up my slip.

I imagine that all of us have hit certain levels when we race, where we have exceeded previous personal bests. Were we now going "too fast"? Again, that depends upon all of the variables above, plus others that I can't think of but maybe others here can comment on.

Where is the limit for me? I really don't know. I think that the NHRA requires that I get another competition license if I ever want to run 9.99 or faster. I may be seen as a weanie on this one, but I would want to have that license under my belt before attempting a sub-10 second pass. I WANT the extra training with people who know more than me. If I didn't get it, then I think that a 9-second run or better would be "too fast" for me.

Don't get me wrong. I WANT to run as fast as I reasonable can. I will go to the NHRA driving school probably sometime later this year or beginning of next year. I LIKE speed. I just want to increase my chances of surviving.

Now, if we ask my wife, she will likely say that I am already driving "too fast". I don't street race (anymore). I got smarter in my advancing years. I save it for the track which means that I can travel at faster speeds with a greater margin of safety.

There's also the variable regarding just plain dumb luck - good or bad luck. Stuff happens. You can have a well-prepped car, an experienced driver, and seeming great track and weather conditions. But, maybe this particular pass, I have an unknown defect in one of my slicks and I have a blowout as I am going through the traps at 116+ mph. My car could quickly go sideways and get launched into and over a barrier. On any other day, that wouldn't likely happen so can we say that those days I wasn't going "too fast"? :confused:

I have witnessed crashes where the majority of drivers have survived high-speed impacts and a couple of crashes where they didn't. Perhaps too fast is determined less by speed, and more by whether or not someone survives a crash. If they lived, it wasn't too fast. If they couldn't walk away from it or were otherwise seriously hurt or died, then it was too fast.

John, now I am getting annoyed that you asked this question. My head is starting to hurt from all of this analysis! :banghead: :lolg:

Actually, this really is a good topic. I am glad that you brought it up and will definitely track other fellow racer's responses. This thread could enhance our knowledge of safety and what are reasonable and acceptable limits for us to consider. I am a fan of racing, but not of dying. Please keep this thread ALIVE! :thumbs: :flag

Gary

Tony.96LT4

John, almost lost it last year at ETown because of Oil/antifreeze on the top end. I was only going 95-100 when that happened but got it back under control. I know the risk involved in racing and take every precaution to not get into that kind of situation. Getting back to your question I won't be happy till I get into the 12's with the stock setup. :yesnod:

ralph

I think Bill and Mike are getting pretty close. At least for street cars. Fortunately the corvette is pretty stable and can handle a lot without getting out of control. I think a 9 sec vette is safer than an 11 sec in a 69 chevelle with drag racing suspension. Those things look like they try to turn themselves over just driving to the lanes. My car is nothing to drive, but you start getting into the nines...you better be paying attention. And of course there is always the posibility of breakage, especially when you are pushing things to the limit. I wouldn't want to lose a tire doing 120 or more.

Be safe....to all

mackeyred96

John, now I am getting annoyed that you asked this question. My head is starting to hurt from all of this analysis!

Thanks Gary, I didn't mean for you to take your work home with you ;)

gary brown

:lolg: :rolleyes: