jbomx363

It's been over 20yrs since I've been to the track and my son wanted me to bring our 08 M6bone stock base (with only a predator canned tune) with Firestone runflats car.

Car has 94K miles on it, bought used, so I don't know when the clutch was changed or if it was changed, nor any other maintenance on it, such as shocks/bushings/end links, etc.

I thought for sure it would be easy 12's. Boy was I wrong.

First time racing a manual, I used to only race auto's back in the day, so this was new. I did not adjust tire pressure either, so it was 30psi.

I did no burn outs, ran around the water box.

1st pass I left around 3500rpm and well.. had fun spinning off the line for a little bit, then... .clutch pedal stuck to floor. 60' .2619 14.11 @113mph.

After clutch fluid change/clean up...got back out.

2nd pass:
Left at 2500.. still had fair amount of wheel spin, 60' was 2.265. Got to 3rd gear and got caught between 3rd and 5th and had to clutch again to get into 3rd. 13.33 @109

3rd pass:
Left at 2-2200 .. hooked much better with just a bit of wheel spin. 60' was 2.457.

Again...got caught between 3rd and 5th.. clutch again to get into 3rd. 13.18 @114.47

4th pass:
Left at about 15-1800. Hooked good, got wheel hop bad. 60' was 2.324. And.. like a broken record, caught between gears and clutch again to get to 3rd. 13.17 @114.37.

I did get some wheel hop shifting into 2nd gear on all of the passes. 4th pass was the worst. I decided I wasn't going to race it anymore as I didn't want to possibly start breaking stuff as this is my wifes DD. I also didn't understand why it was so hard to get into 3rd gear, and it was just bugging me to death. Just driving around town, the shifts are fairly "notchy" feeling, but never really had much trouble getting into 3rd.

Reaction times were okay. Mostly in the .230 range and high was .422. Good enough for me.

I figured if I could of actually shifted into 3rd, should I of been in the mid-high 12's?

With that mph (114), where should I be close to in ET?

Here are my major questions:

What should I do about the wheel hop? I've read a few threads and I'm imagining my shocks are worn and I could make a bushing change too to help that out.

But what about the shifting into 3rd issue (my main issue)? It's the stock shifter. Would going to a MGW help me out? Is it a syncro issue or clutch issue or ???

Had some real fun, would of been funner to get into 3rd and see a 12 on the slip though.

dennis50nj

practice, get in touch with Gary2004 Z06, Robz or read some of Rangers tips on shifting and changing the clutch fluid

jbomx363

I've read Rangers tips before.. that's how I always shift. I imagine in the excitement of racing, maybe I was putting a little side pressure when upshifting to 3rd.

I "rangered" after the 1st pass with pedal stuck and that fixed it fine.

Thanks.

dennis50nj

ok talk to gary and rob and joeg, the importance of a smooth fast clutch release, while putting it to the floor, you can do it with their great advise

93Rubie

The side pressure is easy to fix. Use a cupped hand NO THUMB. To shift from 1st to 2nd. Then from 2nd to 3rd. Just use the OPEN palm of your hand. Cupped hand NO thumb STRAIGHT back into 4th. I VERY rarely miss shifts this way. I also practice a lot too.

Everybody has a first day or a rusty day.

jbomx363

That is the way I shift all of my cars.

Joe_G

I can show you a bunch of 13 second slips when I started racing my vette.

I would recommend the following.

1. Get drag radials. You are never going to have fun with street tires. It's like ice skating with sneakers...you can do it, but once you try skates you realize what a futile effort it is. And frankly it's dangerous. With street tires when you bang second (It'll come) you may go sideways...and hit the wall. Finally, street tires are prone to wheelhop and that's what breaks rear ends.

2. If you clutch keeps sticking, which it might, remove the pedal spring. It's easy to do with a flat screwdriver. Pop one side out and the other will fall out and you can unclip it from the pedal rod. It's greasy, use a napkin. As you are stock you likely won't need to do this until you put in a cam.

3. Do Ranger's shifting drill. I used to bang 5th all the time too as I was used to a c5 gate..the drill fixed it. http://rangeracceleration.com/Improved_Shifting.html

4. When it doubt, let out. If you go sideways at all, just let off the gas and race again. Your run is over at that point. Nearly all the wrecks I see (not equipment failure related) are inexperienced guys trying to drive out of a fishtail. If you let off you'll regain control instantly...not so sure if you stay in it.

5. Once you get drag radials you can learn to launch. The key to a good launch is to avoid the bog. Your clutch will take a lot of abuse, your rear end won't. You want to let the clutch absorb the energy of the launch instead of your tires spinning or your diff handling it. It's a fine balance. The key is walking out the clutch pedal at the exactly correct timing. You don't want to walk out too fast and bog or spin, and not too slowly or you will glaze the clutch. The way I learned was my buddy Retrotech telling me these words..but more importantly, listening to him launch at the track (he has 40 years of drag racing experience).

If you are interested, here is my youtube page. I have half a dozen 1.4 60 foot launches, you can listen to my cadence if you like. You'll see I still miss gears. It normally happens if I look at the scoreboard and see a 1.4...I get excited and it throws off my rhythm every time. You think I'd learn.

http://www.youtube.com/user/jmgathg?feature=mhee

6. Stay with it; when you get it down, it's like smoking a 300 yard shot down the pike with your driver. When you put a good run together it's a real sense of accomplishment as there are a lot of things to go wrong.

jbomx363

Kind of stinks to have to get DR's to get rid of wheel hop for probably hitting the track only 8-10x's/year....but I also don't want to break anything either.

Oh.. I was shifting at just over 6K rpm...should I shift into 2nd at a lower RPM to try and not get wheel hop?

Thanks Joe for taking the time to reply!!

Joe_G

It's really useless going without drag radials. Sure you can launch easy with no spin, and turn 14's. But you are embarrassing all Corvette owners and every kid with a honda will try to line up against you so his buddy can make a "kill" video and brag how he beat a Vette.

jbomx363

I thought I could really do some of this:

After my 1st pass debacle (clutch stuck on floor, 14 second run).. I was doing some of this:

When the day was done, I was doing this:

I understand DR's are going to be the ticket. Once I get the funds up, I'll be getting some, looks like the MT ET's are going to be my choice. But.. that is going to take months and months right now.

What I don't understand is all of these "records" ( Joe, Ranger, and all of those listed) and see a lot of other Vettes on street tires doing what they do as they post on the forums...

How are they avoiding wheel hop? That's really my only concern at the moment as to not break anything. I think I can learn the proper way to launch and get that down with a little time, at least to have fun with for awhile.

I'm assuming dropping my tire pressure down to 25 will help, a burnout (rangers way) and easing into the clutch a little more than banging it in 2nd might also help.

Reading on some of the ways to avoid it, they have put in new rubber bushings or poly bushings.. I don't know how true that "fix" is overall, but it's cheap to try. I'm putting Z51 bars on front and back as we have a lot of twisty road and I'm on the soft suspension. So do I put poly or rubber bushings?

Is the short wheel hop in 2nd something others just live with or have these other street tire guys have some way around wheel hop or are they just living with it and hoping for no disasters?

Joe_G

You may not get wheel hop. My car doesn't even with street tires.

The key is to be smooth with the clutch. Never let it out abruptly which shocks the tires and system and causes wheel hop.

jpee

Joe... you just posted my most important bit of info that I always give to a newbie!!

If it gets "OUT OF SHAPE" Get out of the gas !!! I swear by that rule, and in 50 yrs of drag racing it's never let me down...!!!

You don't know how many times I've raced another car, and I "KNEW" I had a "KILLER LIGHT" and was in the lead at the 60' clocks and he was a slower car.. then I got the "Hated" spin ??

I got out of it, and he went past me but it sure felt good knowing that I'd be racing the following day !! & not scraping LMB Paint off the wall !!!

Fagunza

Regarding the 2-3 shift, I missed a couple last year at two different strips just like the OP. So I decided to replace the factory shifter with an MGW short throw.

Here's what I found two weeks ago when I installed an MGW shifter. While I was removing the original shifter I found the shifter box to be loose. The forward screw (#40 Torx) had backed out about three turns allowing the front of the shifter box to move back and forth about an eighth of an inch. Anyway, this is what I'm blaming the missed shifts on. BTW, my car has 8000 miles on it. Kind of early for a loose screw IMHO.

The change is amazing. The MGW feels a little notchy, but the shifts are much more precise and the installation is a breeze using their video for guidance.

jbomx363

Thanks for the info fagunza.