what are the limits of a stock 03z
02-28-2012, 01:37 PM
#1
Drifting
Thread Starter
what are the limits of a stock 03z
i have an 03 z stock but about to start modding. what can a stock drivetrain hold wheel hp wise before stuff starts breaking?
02-28-2012, 02:33 PM
#2
Team Owner
That's somewhat of a tough question to answer, I've seen bad enough drivers break a bone stock C5 Z06. 
On the flip side, I've seen people with 450+rwhp make a stock/nearly stock drive line live at the drag strip as well.
So much depends on driver input (or lack thereof).
On the flip side, I've seen people with 450+rwhp make a stock/nearly stock drive line live at the drag strip as well.
So much depends on driver input (or lack thereof).
02-28-2012, 02:39 PM
#3
Drifting
Thread Starter
yea, trust me. i have seen my share of bad corvette drivers. i would like to think of my self as the above adverage. someone who could get a bone stock z in the 11's as an example. but in your opinion what would you recommend being upgraded for drag racing? i have a new clutch coming so that is not an issue
02-28-2012, 03:11 PM
#4
Team Owner
There are some different 'schools of thought' on this stuff as some will say to simply leave the rear pure stock until you're doing gears/ring & pinion and then install/upgrade to stronger parts...and others might even say that they leave the weaker shafts in so it acts almost like a 'fuse' or 'circuit breaker', allowing that to break first so it doesn't move the 'weakest link' further upstream and break something more major (such as the ring/pinion, the trans etc.).
I believe in doing the gear swap and building it as strong as possible right off the bat.
02-28-2012, 03:16 PM
#5
Drifting
Thread Starter
yes you make a very valid point. im going to going with a cam only setup so at the most it will prolly make 450 wheel. if i went all the way and did u.p. fast intake ported tb etc etc etc. but for right now itll be a vararam intake cam and full exhaust with cutouts.
so thats my plans for the car if anyone else could chime in that would be great
so thats my plans for the car if anyone else could chime in that would be great
02-28-2012, 04:58 PM
#6
AMP Racing
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An upgraded clutch will be a lot harder on the diff than a stock clutch.
Upgrade both output shafts. I've broken stock shafts as well as 300m shafts. I've broken axles, spider gears, and cracked the case in half. And, I've broken parts inside my trans too.
I had 454 to the wheels through a rather aggressive clutch. I probably could have made it all last longer had I only been running for et. But, trying to cut a light is hard on parts...
With all the money I've spent on parts, I could have just installed a C6Z cradle/diff/trans and not worried about it.
Get an ECS trans/diff brace.
Upgrade both output shafts. I've broken stock shafts as well as 300m shafts. I've broken axles, spider gears, and cracked the case in half. And, I've broken parts inside my trans too.
I had 454 to the wheels through a rather aggressive clutch. I probably could have made it all last longer had I only been running for et. But, trying to cut a light is hard on parts...
With all the money I've spent on parts, I could have just installed a C6Z cradle/diff/trans and not worried about it.
Get an ECS trans/diff brace.
02-29-2012, 06:36 AM
#7
Tech Contributor
The stock clutch will handle your mods and I agree with Capt'n the aftermarket clutches are much harder on parts.
I have 62k daily driving miles & 466 runs on my stock clutch. They last. I cracked a case at 301 runs and I run a hardened long shaft. When you crack a case it usually bends the trans mainshaft. Mine did despite the brace, but the c5 braces might be better.
I'd leave in the stock clutch, if you get 4.10 gears (highly recommended) get hardened shafts while you are at it. ECS has a new diff that comes with shafts for the price of the shafts, might be worth asking about. I have no experience with it.
I have 62k daily driving miles & 466 runs on my stock clutch. They last. I cracked a case at 301 runs and I run a hardened long shaft. When you crack a case it usually bends the trans mainshaft. Mine did despite the brace, but the c5 braces might be better.
I'd leave in the stock clutch, if you get 4.10 gears (highly recommended) get hardened shafts while you are at it. ECS has a new diff that comes with shafts for the price of the shafts, might be worth asking about. I have no experience with it.
02-29-2012, 07:43 AM
#8
Melting Slicks
02-29-2012, 11:36 AM
#9
Racer
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Just a thought. There are certainly a number of vette owners out there that are very successful drag racing a stick corvette. Ranger comes to mind and if you look him up some useful tips on car maintenance as well as performance tips.
Now that said I was in a group that was not happy fighting the stick at at the track and broke a lot of stuff along the way especially at high horsepower (600RWHP+). If you think you are headed down that road and want to use the car more for drag racing than anything else I would think about an auto conversion. Otherwise look up ranger.
Now that said I was in a group that was not happy fighting the stick at at the track and broke a lot of stuff along the way especially at high horsepower (600RWHP+). If you think you are headed down that road and want to use the car more for drag racing than anything else I would think about an auto conversion. Otherwise look up ranger.
02-29-2012, 11:45 AM
#10
Tech Contributor
Just a thought. There are certainly a number of vette owners out there that are very successful drag racing a stick corvette. Ranger comes to mind and if you look him up some useful tips on car maintenance as well as performance tips.
Now that said I was in a group that was not happy fighting the stick at at the track and broke a lot of stuff along the way especially at high horsepower (600RWHP+). If you think you are headed down that road and want to use the car more for drag racing than anything else I would think about an auto conversion. Otherwise look up ranger.
Now that said I was in a group that was not happy fighting the stick at at the track and broke a lot of stuff along the way especially at high horsepower (600RWHP+). If you think you are headed down that road and want to use the car more for drag racing than anything else I would think about an auto conversion. Otherwise look up ranger.
www.rangeracceleration.com
02-29-2012, 11:51 AM
#11
Tech Contributor
I got a lot of help here first from Ranger, then more recently Robz.
Robz clued me in to be accelerating into the clutch release as opposed to hold at RPM and release as Ranger does.
Ranger's method works great for 427 engines with their torque, but the smaller engines do better
I recommend anyone start with Ranger's method, it's much easier on the parts. If you want to step up to the next level and get some 1.4 60 foots, then RobZ's method is the way. Be prepared put parts at risk.
FYI if you are wondering why my shifts are so slow on that video, it's because I broke my tranny on the run previous (where I also got a 1.44 60). I missed third looking at the 1.44 on the board (I know better) as I got excited and lost concentration. If you miss third you run the risk of breaking the blocker ring which means you can't get third without jamming it and grinding it.
I knew I didn't have many days in FL with negative 500 DA and sunshine on the track (this was the first day with those conditions in 6 years) allowing the traction for a 6800 RPM launch so I hot lapped, repeated my 1.44 60 foot and jammed the gears like a trucker to get my slip. I was hoping for better than the 10.8 but I didn't want to risk a flatbed going back again with a broken tranny.
02-29-2012, 12:07 PM
#12
Tech Contributor
FYI, OP if you're interested I scan my runs and provide all the info on my launches for the world to know - do with the information what you will.
Here's my latest thread:
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-t...4-60-foot.html
Here is my scan and explanation including a picture of the part that breaks if you miss third and things go wrong. I have missed third many times and not broken this, but this is the second time in 466 runs that this part broke. If something has to break this is a good thing because you can drive home not using third. It does require a trans disassembly to replace.
Here's my latest thread:
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-t...4-60-foot.html
Here is my scan and explanation including a picture of the part that breaks if you miss third and things go wrong. I have missed third many times and not broken this, but this is the second time in 466 runs that this part broke. If something has to break this is a good thing because you can drive home not using third. It does require a trans disassembly to replace.
At the risk of showing my slow shifting to the world here is my scan of that run.
Three things to note:
Note how I was accelerating into the launch, see the RPM rising (red line top graph) before the car moves (green line top graph).
Also note, I was on the way to flooring the throttle before the tires moved (green line 3rd graph) but I actually lifted just a little on the initial bite. I frankly think it might have been the g-forces, as I see no spin off the line. But I often see little blips of the throttle in the launch sequence on the scans that I do not remember. I do it automatically as I feel the tires bite, or not, during the process.
By the way, notice how the RPM's drop in first gear despite the throttle being floored (green line third chart)...that's the clutch hooking up. Did I mention that this is the 466'th time I've done that to this clutch?
The secret to the good launch is that the RPM's never fall below 4800 during the launch sequence. Easy to say, harder to do.
The G-forces of a 1.44 launch feel pretty nice I can attest.
And in the interest of full disclosure. The reason my shifting was so slow is because I hurt my trans in the run before this where I got a 1.44 but missed 3rd. I broke my 3rd gear blocker ring. It happened to me before - when this happens, you cannot get the car into 3rd without jamming it and it'll grind. Even with my hurt tranny, I knew it was my last chance to get some zero DA weather and daytime traction so I wanted my slip. I knew I could shift slowly and get a decent pass...results in sig.
Here's the part I broke last time, and again this time. I wish I had a 6060!
Three things to note:
Note how I was accelerating into the launch, see the RPM rising (red line top graph) before the car moves (green line top graph).
Also note, I was on the way to flooring the throttle before the tires moved (green line 3rd graph) but I actually lifted just a little on the initial bite. I frankly think it might have been the g-forces, as I see no spin off the line. But I often see little blips of the throttle in the launch sequence on the scans that I do not remember. I do it automatically as I feel the tires bite, or not, during the process.
By the way, notice how the RPM's drop in first gear despite the throttle being floored (green line third chart)...that's the clutch hooking up. Did I mention that this is the 466'th time I've done that to this clutch?
The secret to the good launch is that the RPM's never fall below 4800 during the launch sequence. Easy to say, harder to do.
The G-forces of a 1.44 launch feel pretty nice I can attest.
And in the interest of full disclosure. The reason my shifting was so slow is because I hurt my trans in the run before this where I got a 1.44 but missed 3rd. I broke my 3rd gear blocker ring. It happened to me before - when this happens, you cannot get the car into 3rd without jamming it and it'll grind. Even with my hurt tranny, I knew it was my last chance to get some zero DA weather and daytime traction so I wanted my slip. I knew I could shift slowly and get a decent pass...results in sig.
Here's the part I broke last time, and again this time. I wish I had a 6060!
02-29-2012, 12:13 PM
#13
Drifting
Thread Starter
sorry i havent been keeping up with this thread. my clutch started going 2 weeks ago. it didnt hold launches over 3200 on et streets, bone stck and with how much money it was going to be to do an ls6 or ls7. it was easier to take the monster clutch i had in my garage, send it back to them and exchange for a monster level 3 clutch.
also thanks for all the info you have listed, i have been meaning to look up rangers info on how to launch the car. the only advice i have gotten was when i talk to fart pipe a few times and bought the et streets from him
also thanks for all the info you have listed, i have been meaning to look up rangers info on how to launch the car. the only advice i have gotten was when i talk to fart pipe a few times and bought the et streets from him
02-29-2012, 12:35 PM
#14
Le Mans Master
You can also do smaller burnouts which will also put less strain on the clutch.
02-29-2012, 12:37 PM
#15
Tech Contributor
I always credit you for making me a much quicker man.
02-29-2012, 12:39 PM
#16
Drifting
Thread Starter
my car has 53k miles on it and the first two owners autocrossed it out in cali so it has had a hard life. also it has slipped on me a few times while driving around town, so the clutch is deffinatly going. but with the car being stock. when i did a burn out, i only did just till i started to see smoke. so the tire wasnt melting hot or nothing just warmed up and it dead hooked everytime on 18 psi
02-29-2012, 12:45 PM
#17
Le Mans Master
I don't think your giving up anything on the launch with those last few runs. I bet the clutch itself is hurting your et slightly downtrack but not a great deal. A little more air in the tires may take a little stress off the clutch on the shifts but we're talking hundreths. Anytime you want to shoot me video feel free. I'd say at this point run in better air and take some weight out.lol There are some minor mods to that will pickup power. Not sure you've done them all.
Also, why can't you get someone to make that part you have broken in a stronger material? Maybe call rpm.
02-29-2012, 01:34 PM
#18
Tech Contributor
You've got it going on. It's hard to critque a star.lol
I don't think your giving up anything on the launch with those last few runs. I bet the clutch itself is hurting your et slightly downtrack but not a great deal. A little more air in the tires may take a little stress off the clutch on the shifts but we're talking hundreths. Anytime you want to shoot me video feel free. I'd say at this point run in better air and take some weight out.lol There are some minor mods to that will pickup power. Not sure you've done them all.
Also, why can't you get someone to make that part you have broken in a stronger material? Maybe call rpm.
I don't think your giving up anything on the launch with those last few runs. I bet the clutch itself is hurting your et slightly downtrack but not a great deal. A little more air in the tires may take a little stress off the clutch on the shifts but we're talking hundreths. Anytime you want to shoot me video feel free. I'd say at this point run in better air and take some weight out.lol There are some minor mods to that will pickup power. Not sure you've done them all.
Also, why can't you get someone to make that part you have broken in a stronger material? Maybe call rpm.
Yea the better air would help a ton, daytime racing in negative DA is where records get set. We sometimes get negative DA at night but it's always quite humid so traction becomes an issue.
Also, my vert is heavy. I had 1/2 a tank of fuel this day...so it was likely 3240 or so. I don't have a light battery, electric water pump, and let's face it I'm using a cam & heads designed in 2001 for the ls1 that are small by today's standards. I got the heads for free so that was a deal.
And I like to try to improve my performance to get the most out of the car that I can.
Your point is good on the blocker ring. I'm putting in a cryo ring this time, thought I had one last time but I will this time for sure.
Always appreciate your comments RobZ! Let me know if you see anything.
OP sorry for the hijack...but if you can get some words from experienced guys it's good to listen to I've found.
Last edited by Joe_G; 02-29-2012 at 01:37 PM.
02-29-2012, 01:37 PM
#19
Drifting
Thread Starter
no no it is all good. im always trying to learn and no better way then to learn from the best.
and you weighted around 3240 wih a half tank!!!! i weigh in around 3270 with less then a 1/4 tank wtf!
robz your inbox is full!
and you weighted around 3240 wih a half tank!!!! i weigh in around 3270 with less then a 1/4 tank wtf!
robz your inbox is full!
02-29-2012, 01:41 PM
#20
Tech Contributor
I find skinnies and taking the passenger seat out to be worth .1 to .2.