SledgeHammer 2.0

I am thinking of trying to steer my kid (he's 21) into doing solo 1 and track days. I am not ready to turn over the keys to my car, so I am thinking of getting him a Vette as a starter car.


I am looking to spend 10-20k Or less... but really looking for a good car that I can get my money back out of if it doesn't turn out well.

beating up the 66 isn't going to happen and the old lady's 08 is off limits.....I used to have an 85 Automatic car that I ran some NCCC events with but I think I need to get him a stick car, I know the 08's paddle shift isn't worth a crap with it's 2 second delays..so I think if it winds up being an auto, it needs to be an earlier year that you shift with the shifter.



Anyway looking for suggestions on what y'all feel is the best bang for the buck in a Vette to get him started?.......... or any advice on what NOT to purchase.

Solofast

You are right in that a stick car will teach him more. Automatic drivers in autocross don't learn how to control front/rear grip with the throttle. A lift in an auto car, because of the slip in the torque converter, doesn't produce the same hook up in the front as in a stick car. Learning to point the car with a throttle lift is a skill that auto drivers just don't develop.

I you go with a C4 you want a 93-95 six speed Z07/Z51 car. These are at the bottom of their depreciation curve, but are getting old and are going to need upkeep unless you find a garage queen, but that's getting hard to do. If you get a regular 6 speed car it can be converted to Z07 specs with the right springs, brakes and sway bars, but that takes time and effort. Don't bother with a base suspension C4, too mushy and not responsive enough.

A C5 FRC, if you can find a really nice lower mileage car would be classed well and is a good ride. Better driving car than a C4.

Most plentiful are C5 Z06's. Near the top of you price range, but without question one of the best autocross Vettes ever made. Find a an 04 and go for it would be the easiest thing to do, but a bit more expensive. A set of Rivals or other 200 treadwear sticky tires will get you there for the new SCCA street tire class, where the Z is classed pretty well. Only downside is the availability of tires, but that may get sorted out by the time the snow melts. Worst case is you will need to buy some different rims, which isn't that expensive.

93Rubie

Solofast, hits the nail on the head. If you do a C4, FIND a Z07/Z51 car. Don't try to convert one ( I did this) its a PITA but doable. I'm glutten for punishment however............The Base C4 springs/bars SUCK, avoid.

However, if "I" was doing it from the start like you are. Don't go with a C4, parts and such is getting hard to find in good shape. Especially things like control arms and such. I've found what I needed but it took effort. Don't get me wrong I love my C4, but for the money a C5 is the way to go. They are very stable and easy cars to drive however.

I'd do a C5 FRC and run it in B Street. You'll need good tires, shocks, a front bar, alignment, maintenance items and drive the crap out of it.

A C5Z06 is probably the best VALUE for a auto-x car right now. Not sure I'd want to start auto-x in a 3100lb car with 405hp on Street tires.
They will be in A Street next year. Same items as above on the FRC.

Tires right now=BFG Rivals or Dunlap Dizzera ZII's. They come in sizes that will work for the C5 and C5Z06. Might have to change the front wheels to 18" but this is allowed in the Street class rules.

For a beginner I'd do FRC and then upgrade in a few years if so desired. Or you can mod the FRC more and run in SCCA STU class.

Here I complied this paper on C4's. It'll help if you got that route. Solofast had a lot of info to contribute to this.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-t...or-auto-x.html

nassaubluecoupe

with what these guys are saying. I started doing track events in a 99 auto with C6 Z51 sways and shocks, when I turned 16, and it just wasn't that great for 20-25min sessions on a track. The transmission would get really hot about halfway through the session and I'd have to back off to let it cool. I'm sure for autocrossing it would be fine, since it's so short, but for the track it really needs a transmission cooler. I am now 21 and have moved up to a heads, cam, intake 03 Z06 and it is night and day different. Even though it has the stock suspension it feels so much tighter. I have never had any transmission overheating problems with it, so far, but the oil temps start to get pretty hot in the Texas summers. I've autocrossed it once and it did very well. For what the prices of C5's are now you'd have to be crazy not to go with one, but go with the 6-speed.

SledgeHammer 2.0

Wow, a Z06 would be nice, but an 05 Z06 is probably more $$$ than I am willing to spend. I could probably get an 98-01 (01 maybe) for under 20K....

There is a 96 6 Speed "collectors edition" near me for sale. It's supposed to be have the LT4 Grand Sport engine in it, but I don't know about the suspension. 79000 miles, seems to be priced right, but would need to check it out.

Thanks for the tips, any are appreciated. I am looking to get him interested in something he can do and have fun at. Back when I was young, even though I wasn't very competitive, I had a blast running my car around the track.


Just for clarification... A C5 is 2004 and back to ?? A C6 is 2005 and up ?? right?

nassaubluecoupe

There wasn't a Z06 made in 05 or maybe you meant C5?

C5=1997-2004
C6=2005-2013

You should be able to find a nice higher mileage (50k-100k or more miles) Z06 (01-04) for high teens to low twenties. Mine was $22.5K with 52k miles on it and 427hp at the rear wheels. Mine is also millennium yellow, which seems to be worth a thousand or two more than other colors and this was about a year and a half ago, so prices may have come down some. Also 01 Z's have 385hp stock and the 02-04's have 405hp and 04's came with specially tuned shocks that were developed at the Nurburgring. I also think that in 03 they started coming with metal sway bar end links, I know mine has them.

dbratten

I'd put him in a Miata. Being able to drive fast without too much power is good training. They're also super cheap and a lot of fun to drive.

--Dan

NOSLO6

Miata: Inexpensive, fun, highly competitive, easy to tinker with and learn from, big supportive and enthusiastic community.

SledgeHammer 2.0

Actually, my buddy has a Miata and a Fox Body Mustang that he road raced, which I think I could pick up cheap... they are both great cars, I really considered getting one, but I keep coming back to the Corvette. It just fits more into the scheme, I am worried about the speed he could obtain, but I really had some fun with the NCCC events and I think he would also. ... and if he doesn't like it at least I have another vette.

I didn't know about the No 05 Z06, I seen some 06's for sale, figured there were some 05's out there. I don't know chit about the newer Vette's. I bought my wife the 08 Pace Car to keep her away from my cars. Everything else I have owned was a C2 with some C3's thrown in except for the 85 I had in 89ish.


The search is on.........

el es tu

have you checked autotrader? there are a ton of c5s for sale in your area - even a pace car if you want to have both a c5 and c6 version...

good luck!

froggy47

Another vote for a NA Miata. Or newer Miata.
Cost 2-4k, cheap to upgrade or buy one already set up.
Lot's of competition & help from others that run them.
If it turns out he is not interested, you are out less $$$.

If he gets hooked, easy to sell & upgrade.

I bought my son a 1995 BMW M3 stick, awesome autox car, He took it out once or twice, beat it, blew the HG, lost interest & dad had to fix it up & sell it.

Now he has a 2004 IS300 auto & loves it, never has a bit of interest in autox, loves to skate & rock climb. So I go rock climbing with him when I'm not running the z06. Everyone is happy.



I would not let my kid drive on a track in a "stock" car unless/until he had 2 years autox (maybe towards the end of year 2 if he shows REALLY GOOD car control skills).

chetly

Yep, another vote for a miata. Or an early s2000 built for scca class str.

Solofast

Two schools of thought on an underpowered car.

Drivers that develop skills in an underpowered car learn to conserve momentum and don't slow down as much in corners, but they only learn using the throttle as an on/off switch and don't learn how to use the throttle as a tool of car control. Where drivers with big power tend to slow down more than is necessary and don't learn to conserve momentum, but they learn early how to apply power to get out of corners faster without losing speed.

Either way you have to something more to learn. Not sure if it's easier to learn to just get thru corners faster, or if it's easier to learn throttle control. I tend to think that I can teach someone who already has the throttle control skills not to slow down as much and conserve momentum, since once you get the hang of that part it's pretty natural.

The ability to use the throttle as a tool to control grip at one end of the car or the other takes more time to learn, and if you don't have that in your bag of tricks by the time you have developed your skills, it's harder to try to add it later. JMHO..

VOoDOoGTX

You could always get a 944!

autoxer6

Less horse power = safer
Less horse power also highlights driver errors and forces you to work on improving your driving skills.

Dont get a C6 Z06. It's way to much car and he wont learn much.

I would get a Miatia, 944, 4th Gen Camaro, or any other reliable RWD, Manual car with less than 300 HP or so.

Short story, at a autocross drivers school I had two students. One had a 600 HP CTSV, the other had a stock S10 pickup. The student with the CTSV wanted to learn, but every time he tried to get in the power, he was spinning the tires and tank slapping. He was really frustrated and learned almost nothing about driving. The student with the stock S10 pickup had a blast, learned a lot about driving, and was excited to get back on track and eventually get into a real sports car.

Less is more.

Rob31

C4s have been producing great Mechanics for years now .
No kid deserves a C5 or 6 as there first track car . None...
Miata or a spec racer ...

wtb-z

I wouldn't recommend a Corvette to learn to drive in. They are really well set up, but all the power, high limits, and general vagueness don't really make it that approachable.

By all means get something that is well sorted stock (and avoid moneypits like old Porsches) but I would look for something with half as much power, much smaller tires and not much more mass. RWD, FWD, any number of cylinders will work.

Sgt.Gator

Is this car a DD for him to go to school in, or just a autox car? If it's a DD I'd lean toward a newer 2005+ car with modern airbags and safety features, and four cylinders. If it's a track/autox car only, then some mid-late 90's Miata, Integra, Golf GTI, and a dozen more will be fine. Or if you have to stay Made in the USA, a Fox Mustang, Camaro....

rfn026

Think Miata. And this is from a person who has a dedicated C4 track car.

Richard Newton
My Facebook Page

SledgeHammer 2.0

He's 21.

okay....
I hear all y'all. the Car I have been tacking to the track is an 02 Viper, I hear y'all loud and clear on starting him out small. I just didn't want to insult him (we all know it's not an insult, but we are all over 21) handing him the keys to a Miata while Dad gets to drive the Viper.... Heck the Miata will run circles around the Viper on most tracks, but kids won't realize that.

I think I am going to park the Viper, buy a car we can both drive, and just share it for the next year. I am 6'3 and I cant fit in a Miata, looking out the windshield I am staring at the upper windshield bar. I figured we could share the Vette, but I don't need him getting hurt nor frustrated. That's why at first I was thinking an old 86-88 corvette, not much power, decent handling, priced cheap.

Back to the drawing board.