Monaco!....Ya just won't believe it!
05-26-2012, 07:55 PM
#4
Safety Car
The old man sure showed the youngins how to do it...
Massa was looking good as well...maybe the brain trust at Ferrari can come away from Monaco with some ideas on what to change next.
Be nice to see yet ANOTHER different winner for this round...
05-28-2012, 11:19 AM
#8
Will work for HPDE time.
05-28-2012, 05:44 PM
#10
How was that a great race? Two total passes in 2 hours of racing? This is the only track where a Caterham can hold off Button until the latter gets mad and hits him.
It's fun to watch them go around this obnoxiously tight track, but as far as race quality goes - sorry it is a waste.
It's fun to watch them go around this obnoxiously tight track, but as far as race quality goes - sorry it is a waste.
05-28-2012, 09:58 PM
#11
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
How was that a great race? Two total passes in 2 hours of racing? This is the only track where a Caterham can hold off Button until the latter gets mad and hits him.
It's fun to watch them go around this obnoxiously tight track, but as far as race quality goes - sorry it is a waste.
It's fun to watch them go around this obnoxiously tight track, but as far as race quality goes - sorry it is a waste.
My compliments to Mark Webber, and RBR (Adrian Newey) for the win.
05-28-2012, 10:28 PM
#12
Sorry, but Formula 1 is about DRIVING! It was exciting because Mark Webber (arguably 2nd man on the RBR team) Qualified on pole (after M. Schumacher) and WON the race.......after all of the tire degradation, no passing in Monaco, and RAIN on dry tires, at the end. In my personal opinion, the slowest driver in F1 drives closer to the limit than all but the top 3 in any other form of Motorsport
My compliments to Mark Webber, and RBR (Adrian Newey) for the win.
My compliments to Mark Webber, and RBR (Adrian Newey) for the win.
There are a number of indy car drivers over the years that have done well in F1, with 3 winning the F1 world championship after winning the Indy car series championship. There has been one F1 champion that has made a successful transition to Indy, and there have been multiple F1 drivers that have not found success. Only one F1 driver Mario Andretti has had success in NASCAR, and there are 3 F1 champions who have failed. All but 3 Indy car champions/500 winners have also failed at NASCAR. In the modern era (last 10 years) a number for F1 and Inday car drivers have failed in NASCAR and all have said it is harder to drive and more competitive. Not as sexy but harder.
So I take F1 and agree it's fun, beautiful, exotic and sounds better than any rock concert on earth. But winning at F1 in recent times hasn't translated into success in other circuits, not even sports cars.
The best part of this weekends race is that it wasn't decided in the pits.
05-29-2012, 07:11 AM
#13
Safety Car
There has been one F1 champion that has made a successful transition to Indy
Only one F1 driver Mario Andretti has had success in NASCAR
)When Andretti ran in NASCAR he wasn't just some dufus who showed up. Mario started his racing career in heavy stock cars (Hudson!) on half-mile dirt ovals and then ran USAC stock cars for at least a couple of years where he did fairly well. Then he did NASCAR (14 races between 67 and 69) and then he did F1 (while still doing Indycar.)
So I take F1 and agree it's fun, beautiful, exotic and sounds better than any rock concert on earth. But winning at F1 in recent times hasn't translated into success in other circuits, not even sports cars.
Saying that a successful driver in one series failed at another series and using that as a comparison is also baloney in most cases since those drivers rarely got an honest shot at success. Having a second or third tier ex-F1 driver come to NASCAR and drive in the truck series for a few races and not do all that well is hardly a basis for comparison for either the driver's skills or the validity of the race series' difficulty. Even Kimi is a poor example as he's more dilettante than anything else.
In the old days (roughly 50s through 70s) many drivers were used to driving all sorts of car types and as a result, honed the skills needed to do well in various types of racing. Jim Clark and the rest of the Euro gang regularly drove in sedan races as well as other formula races (Clark was killed in a Formula 2 race and regularly raced a Lotus Cortina in the "saloon" car races.)
All this changed when Chapman brought sponsorship into the game and the drivers started getting paid real money and were contracted to specific teams that didn't want their guys doing all that dangerous "other" stuff so much. And there went even the remotest chance of making such comparisons.
That icon of greatness (
), Michael Schumacher, would get his *** handed to him at the Daytona 500 even in a top car. Does that mean that Jimmie Johnson is a de facto F1 champion? 
Every top level racing series is tough. Efforts to compare them are pretty much efforts to say "the series I like is better" and little more. If you grow up practicing for a specific type of racing and focus your attention on that, it shouldn't be surprising that you will excel at that type of racing to the detriment of your skills in other forms. The NASCAR drivers come up through series that teach them how to drive heavy, closed-body cars and the Euro folks come up driving light, open wheel cars. Their bodies and minds are trained early on to specialize in their specific form of racing. (To their credit, at least some of the Cup drivers will climb into a sprint car now and then.)
It would be great if there was some way to make these comparisons but, in truth, there really wasn't a way to do it "back then" and there certainly isn't these days.
Z//
05-29-2012, 08:57 AM
#14
Team Owner
At first I thought....Montoya.
But,after looking, he never won F1 Championship. (For some reason I thought he did, duh.)
I can't help but remember what a failure Michael Andretti was in F1. That was a disappointment.
But,after looking, he never won F1 Championship. (For some reason I thought he did, duh.)
I can't help but remember what a failure Michael Andretti was in F1. That was a disappointment.
Last edited by TwoSmoke; 05-29-2012 at 09:07 AM.
05-29-2012, 09:59 AM
#15
Team Owner
Member Since: Sep 2003
Location: Raleigh / Rolesville NC
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Worlds best drivers, Worlds most technologically designed cars, budgets larger then most 3rd world countries, racing at very high speeds, through the tight twisty bumpy streets of Monaco, within centimeters of Armco, all with in a few secs of each other ..
Yah it was boring. the drivers and teams make it look boring, They are JUST THAT GOOD.
Yah it was boring. the drivers and teams make it look boring, They are JUST THAT GOOD.
05-29-2012, 10:25 AM
#16
Le Mans Master
Ever try watching Motocross? Ricky Charmichael or James Stewart come to mind as some of the most amazing atheletes in the world. After all the racing I have done in cars, the most pleasurable racing I have ever done by FAR is Motocross. This is one sport where it is 99% talent and 1% bike. For those who have never cleared a triple jump up to 50mph, 3 stories in the air, you can't even imagine.
05-29-2012, 10:38 AM
#17
Team Owner
Ever try watching Motocross? Ricky Charmichael or James Stewart come to mind as some of the most amazing atheletes in the world. After all the racing I have done in cars, the most pleasurable racing I have ever done by FAR is Motocross. This is one sport where it is 99% talent and 1% bike. For those who have never cleared a triple jump up to 50mph, 3 stories in the air, you can't even imagine.
The last couple years of supercross/motocross have been exceptional.
Just goes to show how great(dominating) RC was during his day.
05-29-2012, 11:29 AM
#18
Safety Car
That icon of greatness (), Michael Schumacher, would get his *** handed to him at the Daytona 500 even in a top car. Does that mean that Jimmie Johnson is a de facto F1 champion?
Every top level racing series is tough. Efforts to compare them are pretty much efforts to say "the series I like is better" and little more. If you grow up practicing for a specific type of racing and focus your attention on that, it shouldn't be surprising that you will excel at that type of racing to the detriment of your skills in other forms. The NASCAR drivers come up through series that teach them how to drive heavy, closed-body cars and the Euro folks come up driving light, open wheel cars. Their bodies and minds are trained early on to specialize in their specific form of racing. (To their credit, at least some of the Cup drivers will climb into a sprint car now and then.)
It would be great if there was some way to make these comparisons but, in truth, there really wasn't a way to do it "back then" and there certainly isn't these days.
Z//
), Michael Schumacher, would get his *** handed to him at the Daytona 500 even in a top car. Does that mean that Jimmie Johnson is a de facto F1 champion? Every top level racing series is tough. Efforts to compare them are pretty much efforts to say "the series I like is better" and little more. If you grow up practicing for a specific type of racing and focus your attention on that, it shouldn't be surprising that you will excel at that type of racing to the detriment of your skills in other forms. The NASCAR drivers come up through series that teach them how to drive heavy, closed-body cars and the Euro folks come up driving light, open wheel cars. Their bodies and minds are trained early on to specialize in their specific form of racing. (To their credit, at least some of the Cup drivers will climb into a sprint car now and then.)
It would be great if there was some way to make these comparisons but, in truth, there really wasn't a way to do it "back then" and there certainly isn't these days.
Z//
When another driver in F1 gets 7 Drivers Titles and WINS >90 races, retires from F1 for 4 years, and comes back and pushes as hard as Michael does, you let us know, OKAY.
He's been in Saloon cars and has done well in those for charity events and such...so I'd bet you that Schumi could do well in just about any car he chose to race.
When he actually did race saloon cars for real in World Sportscar Championship his results were:
1990 WSC - 3 races, 1 win, 3 podiums
1991 WSC - 8 races, 1 win, 2 podiums
On another note, congrats to Rubins for rookie honors at Indy this weekend. First 500 race and he wound up 11th place.
05-29-2012, 01:36 PM
#19
Safety Car
I like Schumacher just fine. I just don't think he's as great as everyone likes to think he is. In the never-ending zeal to bow to an idol people forget that during the time of Michael's triumphs he had the largest, most well-funded, most focused racing organization supporting him that the sport has ever seen. He had a "perfect storm" staff (Brawn, Byrne, Todt) making good use of that system. He had tires designed specifically for his car and for him (!) which were then tested and perfected by him. The car was in constant development by multiple test teams putting thousands and thousands of testing miles on the car using Ferrari's private track throughout the season, all at a cost of many millions of dollars. He did not do it alone. He could have done it alone. And any of the top drivers of those days, put into the Ferrari world of those days, c/would have been just as impressive in system.
I have much more respect for those drivers who can clearly demonstrate the ability to carry a less than optimal car to success (see Alonso this season for example #1) rather than purchase a car that's always 3-5 steps ahead of anyone/everyone else.
Probably. I never thought or said otherwise. As usual, you're putting words and thoughts into other people's mouths and minds.
Group C is "saloon" racing?? Ok...
I'll say it once more for (attempted and most likely futile) clarity. I never said I don't like MS. And I never said that I don't think he's a good driver. I do think he's overrated for the reasons stated above. The fact that Nico has whipped his butt pretty solidly for the past couple of years supports my position, too. Prior to MS coming to the Merc team all the talk was about "poor Nico" and how MS was going to put him in the shade pdq. So much for that. And now for all the time since his first race back we've been listening to excuse after excuse (and to his credit NOT from MS) as to why this is so.
Z//
I have much more respect for those drivers who can clearly demonstrate the ability to carry a less than optimal car to success (see Alonso this season for example #1) rather than purchase a car that's always 3-5 steps ahead of anyone/everyone else.
He's been in Saloon cars and has done well in those for charity events and such...so I'd bet you that Schumi could do well in just about any car he chose to race.
When he actually did race saloon cars for real in World Sportscar Championship his results were:
I'll say it once more for (attempted and most likely futile) clarity. I never said I don't like MS. And I never said that I don't think he's a good driver. I do think he's overrated for the reasons stated above. The fact that Nico has whipped his butt pretty solidly for the past couple of years supports my position, too. Prior to MS coming to the Merc team all the talk was about "poor Nico" and how MS was going to put him in the shade pdq. So much for that. And now for all the time since his first race back we've been listening to excuse after excuse (and to his credit NOT from MS) as to why this is so.
Z//
05-29-2012, 03:50 PM
#20
Burning Brakes
I’m very fortunate to been to this amazing venue and have been watching this race for many many years... I’ll keep watching it for a few more decades and I don’t think I will ever lose that sense of awe I get from watching these guys thread their machines through the tight confines. Lap after lap of coming millimeters away from the armco, corner after corner. Throwing the cars over the curbing, with what seems like reckless abandon which puts the cars on an certain trajectory towards an unforgiving wall…. Yet they slide right up to the edge of where the track ends and pain begins.. Its just awesome, it’s the only place where the lack of passing doesn’t bother me.
Always enjoy seeing Webber win, but certainly a shame the Schumacher's race essentially ended before turn 1.
And for the record, Shuey IS as great as everyone thinks. We knew that at the Spanish GP in 1994, where he finished 2nd..........doing so stuck in 5th gear the majority of the race (including pitstops).
Always enjoy seeing Webber win, but certainly a shame the Schumacher's race essentially ended before turn 1.
And for the record, Shuey IS as great as everyone thinks. We knew that at the Spanish GP in 1994, where he finished 2nd..........doing so stuck in 5th gear the majority of the race (including pitstops).