sydneyACE

So a little background...

I got into a debate with a guy over on Youtube (don't laugh, I know it's dumb, but sometimes it's fun to hone your debating skills).

It got started because he claims the C6 and C5 "aren't even in the same ballpark" as far as handling. He also said the C6 was "miles better".
On a related side-note, we were also debating how much time brakes and tires were worth on a track car.

While these are not quantitative statements by any means, I decided to attempt to "correct" my percieved misconception on his part. I told him, the C6 IS faster than the C5, but not by as much as he thought. I told him on a track, if the same driver was driving both, a C5 with performance tires (Nitto Invo, RE760S, Extreme Contact, etc.) and brake-pads could lap faster than a stock C6.

Why would I make an unusual claim like that?
I happen to have first-hand experience with said comparison.
I own a C5 which I track a few times every year. When I run at the track I run Carbotech pads for fade-proof performance. I run a Potenza RE760 Sport tire. A buddy of mine brought his stock C6 to the track which I was able to out-pace by about 1-2 seconds per lap (on a 2.1 mile track). I think my friend is at least as good (if-not better) than me on the track as he's been doing track-days for longer than I have.

This other guy (who claims to have owned 7 Vettes in his lifetime) then proceded to call me a liar. (Which makes my very )

So, I thought who better to help resolve this spat than my buddies on the Vette Roadracing forum?

RDnomorecobra

there's a recent thread on this very topic ... but i think anyone that peruses this section of the forum knows what tires and brakes can be worth. I would bet a c5z on slicks with race pads wouldnt do too bad against a c6z depending on layout of the track.

sydneyACE

Yeah, it's just frustrating because in my experience it's a no-brainer.

Here on our track, there is a long back-straight where I hit 140-145 ish.
On my stock pads, I have aweful fade after like 3 laps, and would have to brake WAY early. After I upgraded to Carbotechs, I could brake-late lap after lap. Holding-it at 140+ for even a second or two, makes a HUGE difference.

I got my buddy to come-out when he bought his C6, and after a few weekends after he learned the track good, I was still able to out-pace him because he just couldn't brake NEARLY as deep as I could. He has since upgraded pads and we are now neck and neck most the time. Once he puts on some good tire though, it's gonna be all-over I think.

Anyway, I'm just looking for some back-up here to keep me from feeling like I'm crazy.

sothpaw2

Just as a fair comparison, at VIR in my same run group there was a C6Z and new GS a few years back. With a C5Z, headers, Nitto-RII and wilwood H pads, I was able to pass the GS and stay within about 1-2S of the C6Z. These were similarly skilled guys...you can see by the lines they run on the vid. Nice to watch the vids later; I pay little attention while actually driving.

At Summit I was able to pass a C6Z w/skilled driver last year with said combo. Main difference being that Summit has only 1 long straight whereas VIR has several.

Mostly, of course, it's the driver.

Lawdogg

In my experience, a base C6 will out run a base C5 on a road course stock and same driver. LS2 or LS3 v. LS1 would be the biggest advantage for a C6. A C5 Z06 will be as fast, if not a little faster, on a road course than a base C6. A C6 Z06 is in another league.

Racingswh

Summit Point Main Track. Dry. Bridgestone RE050 Pole Position 255/40/17's 1:27.5 switched to Hoosier R6 245/40/17 front / 275/40/17 rear for the next session with a passenger 1:22.5 as measured by my Traqmate.

New Jersey Motorsports Park Thunderbolt Track Dry and Sunny. 1:34.5 on Toyo R888 285/35/20's front and 315/30/20's rear and switched to Michelin Pilot Slick scrubs (Porsche GT3 Cup rear race tire) comparable in size to a 270/35/18 all four corners 1:28.3 fast lap and consistently in the 29's the entire session being measured by my Brother-In-Law from the Tower.

Tire performance gains are HUGE!!

My prediction, an average driver in a completely bone stock C6 Z06 would never even see me after we pulled out of the pits me driving my friend Paul's C5 Z06, stock engine, T1 suspension, Hoosier R6's and racing brake pads.

While driving Paul's car at Pocono North a few years back I was second quick on track in a "taste of the track" session where I had a passenger with only my friend in a highly modified Porsche GT2 being faster that session where I started the session 2nd behind Mark and I caught up the entire field (Who also all had passengers) and passed 13 cars after I caught them. Tears were sreaming out of my passengers eyes and I was asking her if she wanted me to slow and pit in but she kept saying "NO, Keep Going!!"

Well prepared C5Z's work very well. At Watkins Glen a well driven competitive SCCA T1 C5Z was a 2:05 or so car and a stock C6Z06 is maybe a 2:15 car there if well driven and traffic is light.

With that said IMO there are very few cars as good as a well prepared C6Z06 as a fun, fast and durable track car. The only other cars I would consider comparable would be the Viper ACR or ACR-X, a prepared and tuned Nissan GTR, only very well prepared Porsche 911's and the recently refreshened Mike Skinner driven stock car that went across the block the other night on Barrett Jackson at 32K. LOL!!

hamdog

The closest real comparo would be to have the cars in stock form and have one driver testing all. With that scenario I would say the C5 < C6 by a small margin (50+hp alone is a factor). C5Z < C6Z by a bigger margin. C5Z > C6 by a small margin (Z carries less weight, more track prepped). The C6Z in the right hands is a tough car to beat by any standard.

gmccreary

I've owned both the C5Z and C6Z and driven both on track. Set up equally, the C6Z will kick the C5Z's *** all day long.

drivinhard

I always thought this test was a good comparo, the Z51 IMHO is the bang for the buck. 2 secs/lap spread among the models on their respective street tires.

http://media.caranddriver.com/files/...-z06-zr1-4.pdf

RDnomorecobra

I dont think anyone doubts that

gmccreary

True. I sold the C6Z and now drive a C5Z on the track. The consumables are a killer on the C6Z.

Timz06

I would like to see that same test with the z06 and zr1 on the same tires.

Tim

drivinhard

I think the carbon Z ran within just a few seconds of the ZR1 at the ring (ie, equal). Less power but lighter, I bet the Z06 would be VERY close on lap time on the same tires with the same gearbox.

Breze84

ZR1>C6Z>C5Z>Z51C6>C6>C5

The C6 Z51 is close to the C5Z but the C5Z can still edge it out....

SoDiezl350

Even though this isn't a very competitive event, the classing system gives insight into how much certain mods help. http://svc.speedventures.com/content...10112draft.pdf

For instance, a Base C5 starts at 0 points, a C5Z at 50 points, and a C6Z06 at 170 points.

To upgrade from street tires to Hoosier A6s, costs 130 points. This now puts the C5Z 10 points ahead of the stock C6Z.