DOUG @ ECS

Looking to finish up my track only C6 this winter. The car is completely gutted (2700lb) and the only item I have not finalised is the ABS. I have factory ABS units available (which might answer the question right there..) from building drag cars and removing them, but I'm curious if others have gone to something else instead?

How many of you run without any ABS?

I'm figuring one time of flat spotting a set of tires and that wasn't worth leaving it without.

I'm not looking to go with a ridiculously priced unit regardless of how much better then stock it is because I also have an 8-soon to hopefully be 7 second drag car habit as well and have to divide the addictions. However, if there is something out there that is race car reasonable I would entertain it.

Any insight on this would be appreciated, thanks!

L98Terror

I run without ABS, I have yet to flat spot a tire. Now that being said I am leaving some braking on the table, after driving Brownlow's car last year a few times I was able to brake much hard and deeper in his car (stock ABS), now that was in TT. During racing I don't recall being out braked in my car and if you watch my videos I'm normally the last to brake.

I'll have to see, I truely believe I am a better driver than I was in 2009 (when I last drove my car in a race).

BTW I really don't have lock up problems in the rain either but it really is nice knowing ABS is there, I wonder how much I leave on the table because I'm afraid to lock those puppies up.

Jason

Ken, did you just pull the fuse or has something else ben done?

DOUG @ ECS

I'm a late braker, and a little rough at times on the pedal, so I'm Leary of myself honestly without it. I'm willing to give it a go if it is common to run without it though.

I'll check out your vids, thanks.

Z06cool

Maybe there's a difference between not having ABS vs. running with ABS issues. Two times running two different C5s, I've tried to be ginger knowing I have ABS messages on. Both times resulted in lock-up and flat spotted tires. It's gotta affect your efficiency if you're a late braker I would say.

OKsweetrides

The preferable option is no ABS. IIRC, programmable Bosch ABS was in 5 figure territory, but its been a year or two since looking at ABS things.

RX-Ben

Nearly every corvette racer (w2w and TT in NASA) that I know uses it. All of the ones that win use it. 4 channel ABS is tough to compete with.

I have run w/o it, when it didn't work. You will need to pay close attention to making sure your pad compounds are not too aggressive and your tires are decent (incl throughout a session). The car was fine w/o ABS, but I would never compete for purple crack w/o it. We hashed through this topic recently, over the summer I believe.

The "real" alternative to ABS is not pulling the fuse, it is ditching the booster and swapping out the master so you can modulate braking properly (by pressure, not pedal travel).

Finally, the ABS may help save a ton of $ on tires.

Git Er Dun

On my 87 C4 if it goes into ABS it goes nuts and acts like its on ice and you lose a ton of braking. However on my C5 (with stoptechs) you can just mash the pedal and you hit your harness it stops so well. I think on earlier abs systems in racing conditions no abs MIGHT be better but with the newer computers I think you would be better off running with abs on.

Short-Throw

One safety advantage of choosing an after market system is going with a separate F/R master cylinder. As you mentioned, price is a function of attainability.

Mike

Wasserott

Doug - As you know from our PM chats, i run without abs and have yet to flat spot a tire. Pad choice and down-force make a difference. I run relatively tame front pads and you obviously know the car.

Chuck

0Louis @ LG Motorsports

Bosch Race ABS is 10k$ before calibration.

Stick with stock, its the easiest thing to do. FlamingZ06 has had some great info regarding its setup and running it as a standalone ABS system on a C6Z.

DOUG @ ECS

Thanks for the replies gentlemen.


I was 70% sure what I was going to do, which was wire in a stock unit since I have them of course, and it's just my time to install, I guess I just wanted to see if many of the "fast" guys run without because that would be time I wouldn't have to spend installing it and laziness towards my own vehicles was kicking in. I see some of the "fast" guys do run without, but I think it requires more finesse' to dial the car in, pads etc, unfortunately I do not get enough seat time anymore to put that time in and I think I'm better off wiring it in.

I have the harness' and the unit, installing it is not a problem, but I will check out FlamingZo6's post incase i can shave some time on the install or simply learn something new.


Have a great new years guys.

0Louis @ LG Motorsports

None of the Rolex cars, indy cars, DP cars, ALMS cars have ABS, so yes, lots of fast guys dont have it.

If you flat spot one set of tires, you just paid for the time it took to install the system, and have a more balanced setup, from the first lap it turns

Kubs

I removed the ABS on my C4 so I can be in control, and the ABS was malfunctioning with my upgraded brake setup. I have a well used set of scrubs that will be my testers. If I flat one of those not a huge deal. I used to race my old Vega and my dad's camaro, neither of those had ABS and I never flat spotted a tire. The key is to approach the limit and learn what the pedal pressure feels like before lockup, dont slam the pedal the first time out.

rmackintosh

Never had ABS in a race car yet.....maybe one day. I don't flat spot tires either...dunno...

The Camaro was tricky because I had the stock power booster hooked up....no one else who drove the car liked THAT very much! Hehe.....

I took it out of the Camaro before ever turning a wheel in the car after hearing of nightmares that guys were going through when the system went bonkers at the track. I like to be able to troubleshoot and FIX issues on the race car AT the track...so I went without for simplicity....

The new car will also be without....Wilwood pedals/masters.

TRACKMAN2

not only do i not run abs in the race car i think it should be banned..its just cheating..doug ....its just traction control for your brakes the extra "what if" factor makes driving more fun and it just seems the brakes bite faster..mabee just an impression but eliminating all those abs line probably does somthing....give me a yell about my project...

DOUG @ ECS

Just when I thought I was set... they pull me back in.


Decisions, decisions. So I now have the stock master and booster in the car, if I go without am I better off leaving the stock booster and master and adding a P-valve, going manual with a Wilwood master and P-valve, or boosted with a Wilwood master and proportioning valve that I tune in?

I have found that on my last car if I did hear the ABS kick in, it was always from a rear tire locking up, generally in board side of going into high speed turn.

Just so it's covered, I have never been on track with any other nannies on, my first instinct even if I'm going for a short drive is to turn the key and shut the TC off. It's just a tuning thing I do instinctively so I never wonder "was that the tune or traction control" and after years of doing this I dont even realise I'm doing it anymore.


btw, the car has Stop Techs all around. It's main usage will be HPDE's where we are instructing customers etc, but I would like to get into TT's and maybe an ST-U to start until I properly dial the car in and even out the power to weight ratio a bit. (I'm a little motor heavy right now..oops)

Again, I appreciate the replies, I have spent much more time making them go forward quickly then stopping, so your experience is welcomed.

DOUG @ ECS

Louis, I have watched your father win many races "on the brakes" so thanks for the help.



"Cheating" within the rules is winning!


What are you up to now?

MySR71

I know this topic is pretty much dead but I came across another option. Turner Motorsports says they have a stand alone ABS system with mappings for race tires. Kind of interesting.

http://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-37...g-harness.aspx

RX-Ben

Yikes, still pricey.

Does anyone know how a "tuned" version would differ from a "street" version. It is just sensing lock-up, correct? Does the tuned allow greater wheel speed variation before kicking in?
I managed to flat spot tires at Pocono, with ABS working and never feeling it kick in. I am not sure how a more aggressive activation point would be useful.