Alludc

im still tryin to make heads or tails of all these rules in SCCA

As I read it, I can only make updates that were available same model year. Im trying to wrap my head around that. All Stock C5s run in AStock. c5s are 97-04. 01 and up have the ls6 intake. Why is it that if a 97-00 c5 put on a ls6 intake it would bump them into SSP (formerly ASP if I read that correctly too)??

theres no advantage to my 99 running this intake over the newer c5s. I just dont see why this would be an issue. If im running one of the National tours, is someone really going to protest me?

acrace

Your FRC would be lighter than the '01 to '04 coupe/convertibles, right? That was one of the trade-offs I was considering when I was looking at A-Stock - whether the bit of extra HP in the '01 to '04s would offset the slightly lighter weight of an '99/'00 FRC (in the end, I went a different way).

The good thing about not allowing updates/backdates in the Stock category is that it limits the ability for someone to build an optimized vehicle across multi-years of the same platform. With some vehicles, that can really enhance the performance potential.

Stock category is pretty simple. Run the car as it was supposed to come from the factory. Make sure that everything is running right/well maintained. Put better dampers on the car. Put on a different front or rear bar depending upon your preference. Run sticky tires if you're not running a regional street tire class. Maybe put on the C5 Z06 Ti exhaust. Spend your time tweaking your alignment and driving to the limit of your car.

Candidly, the chances of a protest is minimal, unless you do really well. However, I look at running a legal vehicle as a matter of personal integrity.


Al Chan
SS '03 Z06
SS '09 Z06

Alludc

you made my point in your post. "maybe put on a c5 z06ti exhaust"

I did exactly that. the z06 ti exhaust was not available in 99. Plus, its from a 'different' car in a 'different' class. When all is said and done, that exhaust gave me about as much hp as a slapped on, untuned ls6 intake swap would do. So why would this be a valid and legal upgrade and the intake not.

I do understand about building an optimized car across its operating years, and a 99 FRC would certainly be the car to build if that were the case. Its the vagueness of the rules just like the intake vs exhaust scenario.

to challenge your point though, if my 99 had the standard hatch instead of fixed roof it wouldnt have an advantage by putting on an intake.

acrace

Exhaust past the converter is "free" (can be modified), right? Hence the suggestion to put on the Ti exhaust. I should've clarified - past the converter.

Maybe it's because I've had to read the SCCA rulebook for years, but to me the Stock prep rules are relatively straight forward.

Alludc

I wasnt challenging you, just making a point that I feel the rules could use some tweaking. I do understand your points though.

I have a street agressive alignment, 2010 z51 front sway and 2010 z06 shocks. Think im gonna bump to a pfadt adjustable front and some pricey koni shocks to step it up.

Gordy M

My suggestion is to get more seat time and make a list of what areas work well and what needs to be improved instead of making too many changes. Driver skill will overcome a better prepared car more times than not. Other than Al, I can routinely beat Z06 Corvettes in my 00 FRC because of preparation. If you are serious about autrossing, you will want to optimize your alignment and corner weight it. With 0 deg of front toe, you will hardly wear the inside edges of your front tires in 2-3000 miles of street driving. If you still run the wagon wheels, get with thin spokes or a cheap set of curb rashed magnesium wheels. Also, the adjustable sway bar should bump you to street prepared, which is where you do not want to be.

The z06 style intake makes more torque, but at higher rpm's, and 5 more hp. However, in autocrossing, you would be hard pressed to take advantage of it since most of it occurs past 5200 rpm and the lighter weight car would get you there quicker. HTH

acrace

Gordy - SCCA allows adjustable sway bars. For 2012, the rule has been revised to allow one to use an alternate bar front or rear (OEM on the other end of the vehicle). If I remember correctly, NCCC requires stock/factory bars front and rear in Group I and an aftermarket bar puts one in Group 2?

BTW, thanks for the compliment. Many an event I sit there and worry if you will those few tenths and beat me.

gsxnut

The rules are what they are and I do think they are specific enough to follow. I thought it was very clear about what you could and could not modify. That being said it does not make all cars in a class equal. That is exactly why you see certain cars dominate a class. As and example the 97-04 cars are all in the same class. The 04 is 7 years new and has some advantages in technology. If you are serious about being competitive in a class then look at the national results and find a cars that matches the most competitive cars in the class.

If you are like me and you only race locally, do what you want to the car and put it in the correct class then have fun trying to get the most out of the car and the driver that is possible. I have a 2000 FRC with engine mods and suspension mods. I am currently running in ASP and would not be competitive nationally with the car. I do get enjoyment out of pushing myself and learning about what it takes to setup a car to get the most out of it.

Mark

gsxnut

It is also my understanding that Z06s 01 and up run in Superstock and not Astock.

Mark

froggy47

I agree with gsxnut, make the car the way YOU like it & class it appropriately

or

keep it STOCK with the stock rules allowances & compete that way. Whether a modification does or does not provide a PERFORMANCE ADVANTAGE has NEVER been a defense as to why it should be allowed

In stock, if the RULES do not specify that you CAN do a modification, then you CANNOT. Period.

Here is a link to the SEB

http://www.sebscca.com/index.php

If you think you can convince them to change a stock rule write a letter, it happens sometimes, ex: is the sway bar rule change for 2012.



Or compete with BMWCCA or PCA they will classify you as an Xcar and you get to compete with Vipers, Cobras, Ferrari, etc whatever shows up & many regions are open to NON marque cars since the economy tanked. Their attendance is down. Gotta pay to rent the lot.

paul8740

Having your car protested @ Nationals is about as much fun as taking it apart and putting it back together - just for fun! At Nationals you have to prove the products contained in your car should be there. There are several ways to check - all of which aren't pretty.

Gordy M has the best suggestion - seat time. Keep your car stock and learn how to drive it like you stole it! If you compare the times from this past years Nationals you will see several people are running a stock C5 faster than many in the SS group! It never pays to artificially upgrade your car and then get you a$$ handed to you by someone driving a totally stock car. When you can run with the SS group in your area with your FRC you'll be ready for the upgrade. Until then I'd work on the loose nut behind the wheel;-) Take an EVO school and see if you can beat the instructor (see Mike "JR" Johnson or Sam Strano ) Visit other regions, go to Divisional & National autox's and watch other stock classes. You will know when you are driving the wheels off your car. You seem to have a lot of enthusiasm. Put it to work for you and worry less about the incidental changes to your car.

You have been getting some great advise and you have a good car. Let it work for you. Don't get too wrapped up inthe mechanics of this sport vs driver capability. Once you polish your technique then incremental changes in your vehicle will make more of a difference.

Paul
RAFT

sperkins

Pretty sure that all C5's from '01 and up got the LS6 intake manifold.
No?

Alludc

they all did. im a 99 tho.

Alludc

no chance ill put a protest-able part on my car, was just wondering about the logistics behind it. I agree nothing will beat seat time, schools, instructor rides, etc. like I said, im getting ahead of myself for the most part.

as far as comparing #s, I do that often. I only ran on hoosiers a couple times, and they were old and no where near as sticky as they once were. I also compared my times to a local national champ in dSP against the times I follow him by locally and by how much time he beat the astock guys by at Nats this year. All of which I plan to make a run there this year if at all possible. SD Tour at least.

froggy47

You have got me wondering now & I did see a bunch of threads on it. Apparently they look the same from the top.

Did GM change the HP/TQ rating on the ls1 in 2001?

They would have had to as the intake manifold is an important part of the ls6 package and worth some power.

acrace

The 2001 - 2004 LS1 has a higher HP and torque rating than the 1997 - 2000 LS1, although, as Gordy pointed out in an earlier post in this thread, it is at a higher RPM and its advantage in an autocross setting is uncertain.

AverageVetteNut

I agree... for now I wouldn't worry about classing and parts so much while you're getting seat time and so on.

Once you get to running bigger ( national type ) events, then you need to make it legal, since even if you finish 24th of 25, that 25th guy could protest. You stated that you'd want to make the car legal any, so that's not an issue down the road.

The FRC is a great car for AS ( in SCCA Solo ) and while AS's #s aren't huge now, they're getting better with some really great drivers in it.

Come on out and play! The AS guys I know are much like the SS drivers I run against. SUPER great people.

Can't wait for the 2012 season to start.. but not until after I get the car ready!

vettehardt

All 01+ LS1s got the LS6 intake. This includes the camaros. The Z28 went up from 305 to 310hp and the SS went from 320-325hp. They also both gained 5 ft-lb of torque.

I believe the corvettes went from 345-350hp.