Anyone ask riders to sign a waiver?
06-13-2011, 01:59 PM
#1
Drifting
Thread Starter
Anyone ask riders to sign a waiver?
I've been giving rides to some people lately and have become concerned about liability - especially since there was a major crash w/ injuries to a passenger at the last TrackDaze event at VIR.
My wife is a pilot and flies a vintage warbird and always insists on a waiver for any and all passengers. Heck, I believe I even signed a waiver to ride with her.
Does anybody use waivers? Are there any applicable forms specifically for track use that are available? There are GP waivers available on the web but the general nature of these forms could possibly get it tossed out of court.
At $300/hr, I'm not to keen on hiring an attorney to do a custom waiver. For now, I just say no, can't do it, and in an incredible show of strength, I even turned down one good lookin' babe that was wanting a ride.
Jim
My wife is a pilot and flies a vintage warbird and always insists on a waiver for any and all passengers. Heck, I believe I even signed a waiver to ride with her.
Does anybody use waivers? Are there any applicable forms specifically for track use that are available? There are GP waivers available on the web but the general nature of these forms could possibly get it tossed out of court.
At $300/hr, I'm not to keen on hiring an attorney to do a custom waiver. For now, I just say no, can't do it, and in an incredible show of strength, I even turned down one good lookin' babe that was wanting a ride.
Jim
06-13-2011, 02:12 PM
#3
Team Owner
you answered you own question. Even with a waiver you will go to court if they want to sue you. So how many hr. can you afford @ 300 or even 200? If you don't want to spend for an hour to get a waiver I doubt you wants days for even a dismissal.
I removed my passenger seat. Saves any asking.
Mrs. Warbird read the forum?
I removed my passenger seat. Saves any asking.
I even turned down one good lookin' babe that was wanting a ride.
Last edited by John Shiels; 06-13-2011 at 02:15 PM.
06-13-2011, 02:48 PM
#4
Drifting
I agree with John and essentially the waiver is worth just about what the paper and ink is worth. a passenger can not waive your negligence and crashing your car in a wall is negligent ... one way or another. Driver error, should have inspected it, should have done maintenance, prove you did that maintenance ... etc.
06-13-2011, 02:49 PM
#5
Melting Slicks
I've been giving rides to some people lately and have become concerned about liability - especially since there was a major crash w/ injuries to a passenger at the last TrackDaze event at VIR.
My wife is a pilot and flies a vintage warbird and always insists on a waiver for any and all passengers. Heck, I believe I even signed a waiver to ride with her.
Does anybody use waivers? Are there any applicable forms specifically for track use that are available? There are GP waivers available on the web but the general nature of these forms could possibly get it tossed out of court.
At $300/hr, I'm not to keen on hiring an attorney to do a custom waiver. For now, I just say no, can't do it, and in an incredible show of strength, I even turned down one good lookin' babe that was wanting a ride.
Jim
My wife is a pilot and flies a vintage warbird and always insists on a waiver for any and all passengers. Heck, I believe I even signed a waiver to ride with her.
Does anybody use waivers? Are there any applicable forms specifically for track use that are available? There are GP waivers available on the web but the general nature of these forms could possibly get it tossed out of court.
At $300/hr, I'm not to keen on hiring an attorney to do a custom waiver. For now, I just say no, can't do it, and in an incredible show of strength, I even turned down one good lookin' babe that was wanting a ride.
Jim
06-13-2011, 02:51 PM
#6
Team Owner
What planes does she fly? I just saw some at an air show. Real nice!
Last edited by John Shiels; 06-13-2011 at 03:04 PM.
06-13-2011, 02:57 PM
#7
Team Owner
I agree with John and essentially the waiver is worth just about what the paper and ink is worth. a passenger can not waive your negligence and crashing your car in a wall is negligent ... one way or another. Driver error, should have inspected it, should have done maintenance, prove you did that maintenance ... etc.
I still think you could also get sued as an instructor also which is sad even with a waiver from club personally.
I get waivers for other trades using / being on my scaffold. Lawyer wrote it up and then told me I'll still be in court even if waiver does it's job 100%.
Everyone is a friend or buddy till something happens. I mean if I take for a friend for a ride at the track serious injuries occur like out of work for a good stretch or permanent disabilities how could he not sue me? They have no choice I would not expect anything else. I mean if I take a person for a ride and he gets a small bruise and sues I'll choke him. It's a sue society and I cringe to think about all the possibilities while on track that could happen or even in the pits going slow. My car hasn't moved in 2-3 years but I still pay the insurance because if they saw it now forget about it. I would hope I would be covered going in the pits or loading on the trailer in the street for a minimum. The cars value I could care less about.
Last edited by John Shiels; 06-13-2011 at 03:08 PM.
06-13-2011, 03:30 PM
#8
Drifting
Thread Starter
She flies a T-28B. They only go as far west as Oshkosh to the big show. All of the other air shows she goes to are on the east coast.
BTW - she saw the chick asking for a ride.
The probability of ending up in court is convincing against rides.
I'm going with no riders other than the wifey.
Thanks for the responses!
Jim
06-13-2011, 04:25 PM
#12
Le Mans Master
Even if you waiver is air tight you still have to go to court with a lawyer to defend the waiver. I have been in business 36 years commercial masonry. In court once I had to sue person I was best man for, raced boat with (partner) for 15 years, lent money to start business 30 grand in 1985, and godfather to son. Sued him for 50,000 and it cost me over 17-18,000 to win. I even made a deal with the lawyer before hand or by the hour it would have been even more. I didn't care if it cost my last nickel I was right. That was enough court for me for a lifetime. Court sucks even a traffic ticket.
I still think you could also get sued as an instructor also which is sad even with a waiver from club personally.
I get waivers for other trades using / being on my scaffold. Lawyer wrote it up and then told me I'll still be in court even if waiver does it's job 100%.
Everyone is a friend or buddy till something happens. I mean if I take for a friend for a ride at the track serious injuries occur like out of work for a good stretch or permanent disabilities how could he not sue me? They have no choice I would not expect anything else. I mean if I take a person for a ride and he gets a small bruise and sues I'll choke him. It's a sue society and I cringe to think about all the possibilities while on track that could happen or even in the pits going slow. My car hasn't moved in 2-3 years but I still pay the insurance because if they saw it now forget about it. I would hope I would be covered going in the pits or loading on the trailer in the street for a minimum. The cars value I could care less about.
I still think you could also get sued as an instructor also which is sad even with a waiver from club personally.
I get waivers for other trades using / being on my scaffold. Lawyer wrote it up and then told me I'll still be in court even if waiver does it's job 100%.
Everyone is a friend or buddy till something happens. I mean if I take for a friend for a ride at the track serious injuries occur like out of work for a good stretch or permanent disabilities how could he not sue me? They have no choice I would not expect anything else. I mean if I take a person for a ride and he gets a small bruise and sues I'll choke him. It's a sue society and I cringe to think about all the possibilities while on track that could happen or even in the pits going slow. My car hasn't moved in 2-3 years but I still pay the insurance because if they saw it now forget about it. I would hope I would be covered going in the pits or loading on the trailer in the street for a minimum. The cars value I could care less about.
People are jsut too afraid to do much anymore because of the cost to defend. I once spent $125,000 to defend a case that was complete BS (at least I though it was!); it gets tiring.
You and I can disagree every once in a while on polotical issues, but based on what you wrote, we are in compete agreement on that subject.
Peace my friend.
06-13-2011, 04:46 PM
#13
Drifting
Member Since: Feb 2007
Location: Macon/Sumter GA/SC
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06-13-2011, 04:59 PM
#14
Team Owner
how much protection do you really have as an instructor/passenger or an instructor driving someone's car with them in it? How much does the event really cover you?
Last edited by John Shiels; 06-13-2011 at 05:18 PM.
06-13-2011, 05:03 PM
#16
Team Owner
John, I realize this isn't the PR&C section of this site, so I won't be too expansive on my reply,but what you described is IMHO truly the heart of what ails this country today, with regulations a close second.
People are jsut too afraid to do much anymore because of the cost to defend. I once spent $125,000 to defend a case that was complete BS (at least I though it was!); it gets tiring.
You and I can disagree every once in a while on polotical issues, but based on what you wrote, we are in compete agreement on that subject.
Peace my friend.
People are jsut too afraid to do much anymore because of the cost to defend. I once spent $125,000 to defend a case that was complete BS (at least I though it was!); it gets tiring.
You and I can disagree every once in a while on polotical issues, but based on what you wrote, we are in compete agreement on that subject.
Peace my friend.
06-13-2011, 05:16 PM
#17
Race Director
Member Since: Oct 2000
Location: Deal's Gap 2004 NCM Motorsports track supporter
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Also, remember that NY and TX are the two states where one doesn't have to prove GROSS negligence. Any kind of negligence or appearance thereof and your goose is cooked.
