mark b

I know that you need to downshift to get into the power band coming out of a corner, but has anyone tried to purposely not shift through the whole lap/session, on say Watkins Glen? Just to see how much torque the car would have in just one gear, say 4th? Lap the whole track in 4th.. or lap Limerock in just 3rd.. what are some of your findings on how much slower or faster you would be? I know it depends on your gearing and engine power/torque but I was just curious. Sometimes I dont downshift before coming out and it seems like i'm going about the same..unless I braked too much then I need to. I mean sometimes your car can only go through the next corner safely at a certain speed to the next transition, so having more torque and power isnt going to really matter much...so what do all of you think?

davidfarmer

it's common practice with some instructor clinics/advance DE clinics to do "no brakes" lapping, or "single gear" lapping. Mostly about realizing and maximizing the potential you have in any and all circumstances.

You need to maximize rear wheel torque by using multiple gears for outright speed, but you can learn a lot about momentum driving and over-braking by doing exercises as you suggest.

Jason

Been stuck in fourth around rd atl. Learned some things.

drivinhard

and went sub 1:40

We ran little talladega w/ NASA a few weeks back. small auto-x track, mostly 3rd gear. I ran 1:04.xx using 3rd/4th, and 1:07.xx on the 2 laps I ran 4th gear only. I wanted to see how much I'd slow down. one corner is a 40 mph one, so it was struggling coming out of it.

Short-Throw

You'd be surprised how many drivers rely on the sound of the car and not true data. Hearing the higher RPM can be very misleading. It can also prevent you from achieving max power sooner as you may be tentative with a twitchy throttle in the lower gear coming out of a turn.


As David said, learning to carry speed through a turn without relying on HP (Momentum --and yes, all cars are momentum cars, not just lower HP ones) will make you a better driver.


Mike

Gary2KC5

Barber Park in an 06' Z06 is basically a 3rd gear track

Screamin Z

I did 4th gear at road America. Not by choice but also learned a few things.

bags142

I have only done TGPR and RRR, both are 1 gear tracks for me. But, I am not so good at this driving thing



Cause I am dumb, why did you choose 4th instead of 3rd?

I run there and leave it in 3rd on a mostly stock 2000 frc with a sh!&&y driver.

Gman57

I've found that while out on the track in inclement weather.... cold and wet. Maintaining the higher gear coming out of the turn I can maintain better speed without over torquing the car and loosing grip. And my car holds a good power band from 2500 to 5000 rpms..... or am I in left field on this plan.....

drivinhard

I ran 3rd/4th on the "go" laps, and 4th gear only on a couple of "fun" laps where I was just seeing how fast I could go only using 4th. 3rd is much lower in the M12 than M6, so we are well into 4th on a 3 of the straights

mark b

thanks for the replies, so Im not the only one doing this.. that makes me feel better.. I thought i was just lazy sometimes, but sometimes in a higher horsepower car like the vette it is better to stay in gear.. i have a toyota scion 5 speed that i drive on the street and I try it with that car too, but most times it needs to be in 3rd for good power out of a turn, it all depends on the conditions.. I guess im lazy from the autos that i drive.. But the scion keeps you busy because it is alittle 4 banger..

Also I would like to know from some peoples experience how much faster a heel/toe downshift is compared to a regular downshift? how much time do you really gain? is it just to get the downshift done sooner so you dont have to do the shift before the corner? you did it under braking so you have one less thing to worry about when you are entering a corner? Im still working on these things, and have yet to master them. sometimes my mind just blanks and Ill miss the shift all together.

RacePro Engineering

The heel-and-toe downshift has to do with the CONSTANT application of the brake while getting into the proper gear for exiting the corner in question.

In terms of time gained by using this technique, even if executed perfectly, it still will not begin to make up for your time lost by staying in a single gear when you need at least three (like at The Glen.)

Ed LoPresti

bags142

AHHH.. THANKS!

I knew the Z had shorter gears, I just did not know how much.


As G.I. Joe use to say knowing is half the battle!

Liquid1

Heel and toeing is primarily done to keep the car settled, not to save time. If you are on the limit of the traction the tires can give you and you unsettle the car because of a shift or because of the engine braking effect, you can skid.

Also, I find it is often helpful to run in one gear so you have one less thing to think about when first learning a track. Most tracks I've been to with the Vette I'm in 3rd and 4th only.

waddisme

I do VIR laps in 4th occasionally when working on other things. Need to get a data logger to see if it really hurts my lap times. Car also has 460 rwtq at 3500 rpms so that doesn't hurt.

Bills Z06

In addition to the benefits stated above, you'll run much cooler oil temps by staying in a higher gear. I do this often (run a few laps in 4th gear) just to get temps down at Texas World Speedway down here in sunny, hot S/E Texas!

jaa1992

Lets see, once up to speed CMP in 4th whole track is a great student learning tool.
Road Atl can be done in 4th, once Jason proved it could be done I've used it a couple of times with students.
TGPR - can be done in 3rd, but when the engine goes to 0 RPM after the 2nd lap you are done for a long time
I'll have students use just 3rd or 4th at Roebling, depends on the car.
I think NCCAR could be done in 3rd as a learning tool.

gmccreary

I often do Roebling Road in 4th.

AtomicZ

I do it on all new tracks. It helps me learn the track and get my lines down.

95jersey

For novice students with high power cars, I find this to be an EXCELLENT technique to teach them how to drive the track. For new students, there is SO much going on that to take shifting out of the equation for at least the morning sessions, tends to be a great
benefit to them. It allows them to concentrate on the course and hit their apex's and braking points.

I had one novice student that I kept him in 4th gear the entire day and we just focused on apex and braking zones, the second day we then started to shift. He approached me after the weekend and said initially he was not pleased with my metholodigy, but after the entire weekend, he felt that by concentrating on just apexing and braking iniitially , it significantly improved his driving skills and allowed him to breath and figure it out one peice at a time. By the end of the weekend he had made great strides. He was faster than those in his run group with similiar cars because he was FOCUSED on correct apexing and braking, rather than applying the most power at any given moment.