jasonberkeley

Hey all,

How is everyone with purpose built race-cars (that don't have to worry about about going back to street wheels and tires) dealing with the TPMS system causing the car to virtually shutdown when it doesn't read a signal?

Thanks,

Jason

Z06cool

gkmccready

I'm watching this one, too.

Joe@Phoenix has a procedure but you need to do it every time you cycle battery power (or run power all the time even through the kill switch to a particular circuit).

I think others gave up and just installed an F-Body ECU, or a MoTeC, or whatever. You might call the guys like LGM and DRM and Phoenix (since I last talked to them a few years ago about it) to see what they have hiding these days.

The other funky solution I've heard is to get the stock ECU to learn a set of sensors, then place those sensors in a sealed container and pressurize it and strap it to the car somewhere...

WNeal

A learned friend of mine set me up with a PVC canister that we put all 4 TPM's in, sealed it up, put a valve in and pressurized it to 30 PSI.
It is mounted in the back of my car and the car is no wiser.
Problem solved, and I had a few of them due to no TPMs

Don't disable it, fool it, much easier and very effective

dvandentop

same solution i have seen a few times here on the forum

froggy47

I never really heard if anyone did it successfully, good to know.

dfinke23

I have read that you can drive the car approx 75 miles and it will loose signal and read XXX, one by one. When all four read XXX you are good to go.
Prolly have to do it again if you lose battery power.
Call Robert Finlayson @ Performance AFX and see what he does.

0Vector Vette

The only computer I have in the car is the ecu to run the engine. I had a custom wiring harness made and run Autometer gauges.
Robert Finlayson
Performance AFX Motorsports

WNeal

Not probably, you will

jasonberkeley

SO once you do the 75 miles of driving, and they all set at XX, you are good to go forever (or until you lose battery power)?

Can you fool it by having the car in gear on a lift and letting the wheels spin for a few hours?

WNeal

I had to drive mine for 20 minutes of "moving" time. I would set the DIC timer and just drive around. If I stopped at a stop sign etc. I would stop the timer. You have to be moving. Right at about 20 minutes, all would come back on and then I could turn the nannies off.

If you lose or disconnect the battery, you have to do it all again.


The issue arose when I installed the emergency kill switch and/or tested it.


Even after resetting the Keep Alive Memory, I had to start the car twice to be able to turn the nannies off.
Once I put the canister with the TPMs in the car, all these issues went away.

If I disconnect the battery now, the car just looks for the TPMs on restart and thinks they are installed. It can take a few minutes for the car to find them.


Funny you ask about jacking it up.
I tried this and it was a disaster. Rear wheels turning, fronts not creates a DIC disaster. I got every code you could possibly think of.
That method will just not work.

Have not had a single related issue since putting the TPMs in the canister.

dfinke23

^^^ Sounds like the best solution for a dedicated track car. Could you still run a lap timer with data acquisition through the OBD port?

96CollectorSport

I know Jerry does the 20 minute deal with his STO car, if your class allows you to go stand alone that would be the best route. Then you don't have to screw around wondering if fooled it or not. I'm suprised that you can't turn it off with a Tech 2.
Jerry also said the TPMS sensors in a tube didn't work for him. Not sure why, that's why he did the 20 minute thing.

froggy47

Would you be willing to post specifications on this device? Pictures? What if you have to "learn" the sensors to the car? You have to take them out of the canister?

davidfarmer

on our car, as long as you run with AH/TC turned completely off, the system could care less. I agree that if you need AH/TC Comp mode (which any decent driver really should not) you get 50-100miles. You can extend this by simply parking between the street tires between sessions.

I think the pressurized canister setup is the simplest way to go if you need AH/TC. Just put it in the car somewhere and forget it. If you don't need it, just remember to shut the system down BEFORE you go on track. You can shut it down on our 06' once you get on track, but you must be going straight, slowish, and smooth. Once it starts throwing errors on track....you are pretty much screwed.

I wouldn't go aftermarket unless you don't want ABS

WNeal

Dave,
I am not sure if I understand how you are doing this, I had to install the sensors in the tube so that the car saw them, w/o doing that, I cannot turn the nannies off.

Is that the same as yours?

WNeal

I will get you some photos.

It is basically a pvc tube, capped and a tire valve put in.
All 4 sensors taped to a piece of cardboard that fits tight in the tube and then pressurized.

We did have to "teach" the car to see the TPM's using the appropriate tool first.

No problems since.

As soon as I get in my office, I will get the pics as they are on my zip drve

froggy47

Thanks, it'll be very useful info.

BEZ06

Here are just a few thoughts about the C6 TPMS and its interface with the AH.

From everything I've read here on the forum, it seems that different model years of the C6 may act a little differently and have different tolerances when running with no sensors.

I did some fairly extensive testing with my '05 and '06 and they both operated the same. I've now got an '09 and it may act a little differently from the earlier cars.

The 2005-2006

When you run with no sensors at all, according to the Owner's Manual you've got 60 minutes before you will get the "Service Tire Monitor" message at which time you won't be able to go into Comp mode or turn AH completely off.

I have done the experiment with both my old '05 and my '06, and they both take "about 60 minutes" just like the manual says. Actually the '06 took about 1 hour and 15 minutes until I got the message - I was running in Comp mode and the AH automatically went back to full on.


2007 and newer

In 2007 the wording changed in the Owner's Manual to read "about 30 minutes" before you get the "Service Tire Monitor" message and will be unable to turn off the AH completely or go into Comp mode.

I need to try it in my '09 to confirm the "about 30 minutes" that the manual has mentioned since 2007. So far with limited testing, the '09 seems to allow me to turn off the AH or go into Comp mode with a couple of sensors inop (not all), and my '06 wouldn't allow that. When running with no sensors at all the '09 lets me turn off AH or go into Comp, but I haven't had a chance to run for the 30 minutes to see what happens when that time is up.

I know there are reports of a "20 minute IN MOTION time", but my experience is that those 60 or 30 minutes are simply ignition on time without shutting down the engine. If you shut down and restart, you begin another 30 or 60 minutes before you have a problem.

A 2005 or 2006 shouldn't have any problem at most HPDE's running 30 minute sessions, however a 2007 or newer could easily run into a problem during a session - especially if you start up in the paddock, drive out and sit in the staging area with the engine running waiting for entry onto the track.


The sensors in a PVC pipe/pressurized container thingy

I know people have reported that this works well, but I have concerns. I have never tried this, but I sense a problem with using this method - especially in a 2007 or newer.

When the car (sensors) sit still for more than 15 minutes, they go into a sleep mode where the sensors only transmit once every 60 minutes. When you start driving faster than 20 mph, the sensors detect wheel rotation and wake up and begin transmitting once every 60 seconds.

When the sensors are sitting in pressurized container, they never rotate and will never wake up - they'll only be transmitting once per hour, and when you start driving the TPMS is looking for them to start checking in almost immediately when you reach 20 mph.

In a 2007 or newer C6 that gives the "Service Tire Monitor" message after "about 30 minutes", after 30 minutes of engine running time, if you're running in Comp or with AH off completely, you may have the AH to automatically come back full on because the sensors may not have all checked in if they're only transmitting once every 60 minutes.


So....for HPDE's I think the easiest thing to do is to just run sensors in your track wheels. If I were tracking a 2007 or newer with no sensors, I think I'd warm up the engine and then shut down in the staging area and try to start up not too long before getting the green flag to start a session.

For a track only car, I don't know what I'd do - I guess it depends on what your class regs are. If allowed, you could remove all the computer modules like the BCM, RCDLR (the TPMS is part of the RCDLR module), the yaw rate sensor, etc., etc., and just leave the ECM for running the engine, and I'd leave the EBCM for ABS. The problem is that so many of these things talk to each other that I'm not sure you could still run a stock ECM - as has been mentioned you might have to go to a MOTEC or something.

BTW, to my knowledge there's no way to disable the C6 TPMS withouth ripping out the RDCLR module. The C5 Z06 came with non-runflats and the TPMS was disabled. You could use a Tech 2 to activate/disable the TPMS in a C5, but that was in the days before tire pressure sensors and a TPMS were mandated by the Federal Gubmint!! In the C6, the TPMS is hardwired in there.

So....these are just some thoughts to consider when trying to figure out how to run on the track. Just MHO, and YMMV!!

Bob

davidfarmer

WNeal, in my case, I can still shut the system completely down even once it detects an error. Even once I forgot on track.....I could not dissable it on track, but I came into the paddock, cycled the ignition a few times, then it allowed me to shut everything down before I started moving again. May be unique to the 06', but as long as we run it completely turned off (which I do) it isn't a problem.

Once the error sets however, even Comp mode is completely useless....just won't let you do anything!