New to autocrossing...questions
07-11-2010, 07:50 AM
#1
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
New to autocrossing...questions
These quesitons will make me sound like a total rookie, but here they are.
I've had my 94 vette about 2 1/2 years now, and have participated in the NCCC solo autocrosses my local club has hosted in Waco, TX (half way between Dallas and Austin). There are usually 2 or 3 per year. All have been 14 "event" autocrosses (2 laps per event) meaning you run a total of 28 laps. Usually 14 on Saturday, 14 on Sunday if it's a 2 day thing.
1.) What do other autocrossing clubs such as SCCA call "laps" or "runs"? What is the difference between an "event", a "run", and a "lap"? I assume they're all somewhat synonomous. I guess different folks call them different things. There just seems to be some differences in lingo from place to place.
2.) I'd like to participate in more autocross gatherings within 100 miles of where I live, but maybe NCCC has spoiled me. At a typcial NCCC autocross, we run a minimum of 10 timed laps per day and as many at 14 in a day. I've looked online to see what other autocross gatherings (such as SCCA) are doing and it seems some of them only have 4-5 timed runs per day? Is that the norm? Is it just that they have so many participants that there is only enough daylight for each driver to get 4-5 laps?
To me that just doesn't seem worth a 100+ mile drive. Maybe I am just spoiled as I said earlier.
I've had my 94 vette about 2 1/2 years now, and have participated in the NCCC solo autocrosses my local club has hosted in Waco, TX (half way between Dallas and Austin). There are usually 2 or 3 per year. All have been 14 "event" autocrosses (2 laps per event) meaning you run a total of 28 laps. Usually 14 on Saturday, 14 on Sunday if it's a 2 day thing.
1.) What do other autocrossing clubs such as SCCA call "laps" or "runs"? What is the difference between an "event", a "run", and a "lap"? I assume they're all somewhat synonomous. I guess different folks call them different things. There just seems to be some differences in lingo from place to place.
2.) I'd like to participate in more autocross gatherings within 100 miles of where I live, but maybe NCCC has spoiled me. At a typcial NCCC autocross, we run a minimum of 10 timed laps per day and as many at 14 in a day. I've looked online to see what other autocross gatherings (such as SCCA) are doing and it seems some of them only have 4-5 timed runs per day? Is that the norm? Is it just that they have so many participants that there is only enough daylight for each driver to get 4-5 laps?
To me that just doesn't seem worth a 100+ mile drive. Maybe I am just spoiled as I said earlier.
Last edited by CStewTAMU; 07-11-2010 at 08:10 AM.
07-11-2010, 09:02 AM
#2
Melting Slicks
You are right that in most SCCA events you aren't going to get as much time on the course as you will in NCCC events.
Part of the challenge in autocross is to get down to fast times in just a few runs. At the SCCA Nationals, you get three runs and you are done. The skill is in being fast right out of the box, and you don't develop that skill if you have 14 runs.
Many local SCCA events have more than 3 runs, typically four (or at most five) is what you will see, but that is usually a decision made at the event based on how many cars show up. When running local events most hot shoes think about the event as being over after three runs are done, the remaining runs are just for practice. Some of us who ran regularrly used to trade the trophies based on who was ahead after three runs if the local event had more than three runs. The guy who was ahead after three runs kept the trophy. That put the incentive to go fast quickly back into the day...
Part of the challenge in autocross is to get down to fast times in just a few runs. At the SCCA Nationals, you get three runs and you are done. The skill is in being fast right out of the box, and you don't develop that skill if you have 14 runs.
Many local SCCA events have more than 3 runs, typically four (or at most five) is what you will see, but that is usually a decision made at the event based on how many cars show up. When running local events most hot shoes think about the event as being over after three runs are done, the remaining runs are just for practice. Some of us who ran regularrly used to trade the trophies based on who was ahead after three runs if the local event had more than three runs. The guy who was ahead after three runs kept the trophy. That put the incentive to go fast quickly back into the day...
07-11-2010, 09:10 AM
#3
Safety Car
Running autocross is like doing a qualifying lap. It's all out all the time. Here's a book for you.
Richard Newton
Speed TV Blog
Richard Newton
Speed TV Blog
07-11-2010, 09:21 AM
#4
Burning Brakes
Running autocross is like doing a qualifying lap. It's all out all the time. Here's a book for you.
Richard Newton
Speed TV Blog
Richard Newton
Speed TV Blog
07-11-2010, 02:29 PM
#5
Tech Contributor
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These quesitons will make me sound like a total rookie, but here they are.
I've had my 94 vette about 2 1/2 years now, and have participated in the NCCC solo autocrosses my local club has hosted in Waco, TX (half way between Dallas and Austin). There are usually 2 or 3 per year. All have been 14 "event" autocrosses (2 laps per event) meaning you run a total of 28 laps. Usually 14 on Saturday, 14 on Sunday if it's a 2 day thing.
1.) What do other autocrossing clubs such as SCCA call "laps" or "runs"? What is the difference between an "event", a "run", and a "lap"? I assume they're all somewhat synonomous. I guess different folks call them different things. There just seems to be some differences in lingo from place to place.
2.) I'd like to participate in more autocross gatherings within 100 miles of where I live, but maybe NCCC has spoiled me. At a typcial NCCC autocross, we run a minimum of 10 timed laps per day and as many at 14 in a day. I've looked online to see what other autocross gatherings (such as SCCA) are doing and it seems some of them only have 4-5 timed runs per day? Is that the norm? Is it just that they have so many participants that there is only enough daylight for each driver to get 4-5 laps?
To me that just doesn't seem worth a 100+ mile drive. Maybe I am just spoiled as I said earlier.
I've had my 94 vette about 2 1/2 years now, and have participated in the NCCC solo autocrosses my local club has hosted in Waco, TX (half way between Dallas and Austin). There are usually 2 or 3 per year. All have been 14 "event" autocrosses (2 laps per event) meaning you run a total of 28 laps. Usually 14 on Saturday, 14 on Sunday if it's a 2 day thing.
1.) What do other autocrossing clubs such as SCCA call "laps" or "runs"? What is the difference between an "event", a "run", and a "lap"? I assume they're all somewhat synonomous. I guess different folks call them different things. There just seems to be some differences in lingo from place to place.
2.) I'd like to participate in more autocross gatherings within 100 miles of where I live, but maybe NCCC has spoiled me. At a typcial NCCC autocross, we run a minimum of 10 timed laps per day and as many at 14 in a day. I've looked online to see what other autocross gatherings (such as SCCA) are doing and it seems some of them only have 4-5 timed runs per day? Is that the norm? Is it just that they have so many participants that there is only enough daylight for each driver to get 4-5 laps?
To me that just doesn't seem worth a 100+ mile drive. Maybe I am just spoiled as I said earlier.
We invite SCCA and BMW club autocrossers to run with us although the 4 events don't really mean anything more than getting 16 laps around the track for $40 Vs the 6 they would get for $30 if they were running an SCCA or BMW event.
Bill
07-11-2010, 02:55 PM
#6
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I towed my vette nearly 4,000 miles, round trip, to take 6 runs over 2 days.
07-11-2010, 06:12 PM
#7
CStewTAMU,
I hear ya. I have run with SCCA, TAMSCC (which isn't that far from you), PCA, and even the BMWCCA. Out of all of those, the most runs I ever got to run was with TAMSCC - usually 4-6 runs of one outing on the course.
That is, until I ran up here with the Vancouver PCA - here they get a minimum of 6 runs, sometimes 8, depending on the number of cars turning up.
Most of the courses seem to favor cars like the Miata - short and damn tight. Not a lot of space to turn up the wick on a Vette. They stress handling and tight transitions over sweepers and straights to lay down the power. If you look at event results online, it is usually either all out autocross prepped cars or Miatas that get TTOD (Top Time of Day).
It's one of the reasons my wife has allowed me to get spare wheels and Hoosier A 6's, and now the Pfadt Threat Level I setup (inverted adjustable sport shocks and adjustable sway bars) for our C6 Z51, so we can get the Vette to be more competitive. Since she co-drives the car, she wants to be able to as competitive as possible, which is a good thing.
College Station isn't too far away from you - so if you want to compete against some damn stiff competition (look for Chris Ramey or Todd Farris- I raced with both of them when I went to A&M over 20 years ago), you can find it there. Also, look up John Gross - he drives a 2007 Black Z06 and he can get that car to flat out MOVE!! John's like my kid brother - and since he worked for Roush/Yates - he knows cars - and he has raced Vettes for a goodly amount of time, he still has his red 87 C4 - so, you can hook up with him, he'll help you out a lot.
I hear ya. I have run with SCCA, TAMSCC (which isn't that far from you), PCA, and even the BMWCCA. Out of all of those, the most runs I ever got to run was with TAMSCC - usually 4-6 runs of one outing on the course.
That is, until I ran up here with the Vancouver PCA - here they get a minimum of 6 runs, sometimes 8, depending on the number of cars turning up.
Most of the courses seem to favor cars like the Miata - short and damn tight. Not a lot of space to turn up the wick on a Vette. They stress handling and tight transitions over sweepers and straights to lay down the power. If you look at event results online, it is usually either all out autocross prepped cars or Miatas that get TTOD (Top Time of Day).
It's one of the reasons my wife has allowed me to get spare wheels and Hoosier A 6's, and now the Pfadt Threat Level I setup (inverted adjustable sport shocks and adjustable sway bars) for our C6 Z51, so we can get the Vette to be more competitive. Since she co-drives the car, she wants to be able to as competitive as possible, which is a good thing.
College Station isn't too far away from you - so if you want to compete against some damn stiff competition (look for Chris Ramey or Todd Farris- I raced with both of them when I went to A&M over 20 years ago), you can find it there. Also, look up John Gross - he drives a 2007 Black Z06 and he can get that car to flat out MOVE!! John's like my kid brother - and since he worked for Roush/Yates - he knows cars - and he has raced Vettes for a goodly amount of time, he still has his red 87 C4 - so, you can hook up with him, he'll help you out a lot.
07-11-2010, 08:22 PM
#8
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
CStewTAMU,
I hear ya. I have run with SCCA, TAMSCC (which isn't that far from you), PCA, and even the BMWCCA. Out of all of those, the most runs I ever got to run was with TAMSCC - usually 4-6 runs of one outing on the course.
That is, until I ran up here with the Vancouver PCA - here they get a minimum of 6 runs, sometimes 8, depending on the number of cars turning up.
Most of the courses seem to favor cars like the Miata - short and damn tight. Not a lot of space to turn up the wick on a Vette. They stress handling and tight transitions over sweepers and straights to lay down the power. If you look at event results online, it is usually either all out autocross prepped cars or Miatas that get TTOD (Top Time of Day).
It's one of the reasons my wife has allowed me to get spare wheels and Hoosier A 6's, and now the Pfadt Threat Level I setup (inverted adjustable sport shocks and adjustable sway bars) for our C6 Z51, so we can get the Vette to be more competitive. Since she co-drives the car, she wants to be able to as competitive as possible, which is a good thing.
College Station isn't too far away from you - so if you want to compete against some damn stiff competition (look for Chris Ramey or Todd Farris- I raced with both of them when I went to A&M over 20 years ago), you can find it there. Also, look up John Gross - he drives a 2007 Black Z06 and he can get that car to flat out MOVE!! John's like my kid brother - and since he worked for Roush/Yates - he knows cars - and he has raced Vettes for a goodly amount of time, he still has his red 87 C4 - so, you can hook up with him, he'll help you out a lot.
I hear ya. I have run with SCCA, TAMSCC (which isn't that far from you), PCA, and even the BMWCCA. Out of all of those, the most runs I ever got to run was with TAMSCC - usually 4-6 runs of one outing on the course.
That is, until I ran up here with the Vancouver PCA - here they get a minimum of 6 runs, sometimes 8, depending on the number of cars turning up.
Most of the courses seem to favor cars like the Miata - short and damn tight. Not a lot of space to turn up the wick on a Vette. They stress handling and tight transitions over sweepers and straights to lay down the power. If you look at event results online, it is usually either all out autocross prepped cars or Miatas that get TTOD (Top Time of Day).
It's one of the reasons my wife has allowed me to get spare wheels and Hoosier A 6's, and now the Pfadt Threat Level I setup (inverted adjustable sport shocks and adjustable sway bars) for our C6 Z51, so we can get the Vette to be more competitive. Since she co-drives the car, she wants to be able to as competitive as possible, which is a good thing.
College Station isn't too far away from you - so if you want to compete against some damn stiff competition (look for Chris Ramey or Todd Farris- I raced with both of them when I went to A&M over 20 years ago), you can find it there. Also, look up John Gross - he drives a 2007 Black Z06 and he can get that car to flat out MOVE!! John's like my kid brother - and since he worked for Roush/Yates - he knows cars - and he has raced Vettes for a goodly amount of time, he still has his red 87 C4 - so, you can hook up with him, he'll help you out a lot.
It sucked. Yea, I've been the TAMSCC practices in the summer where you can run unlimited laps. Those are nice. But I just refuse to drive a 200 mile round trip just to run 4 or 5 timed laps. I wonder why NCCC run soooo many more laps. We even typically have 50+ drivers and have no problem with everyone getting in 14 laps per day between 9 am and 3-4pm.
07-11-2010, 09:46 PM
#9
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Hi CStewTAMU,
I can't speak for all the regions in NCCC, but we run so many laps in the Southwest Region for several reasons. 1. We do it because its REALLY fun! 2. It attracts racers from other NCCC regions who are competing for points, which brings more entry fees our way. 3. In the SW Region we are Points Championship CRAZY. 4. My club is fairly busy with real-life stuff throughout the year, so we use our competition sanctions all in one weekend because its a pain to get together more frequently than that. 5. IMO, spending time with my NCCC family is WAY BETTER than spending time with my real family!
Keep the greasy side down and we'll see you at our 14 event Waco weekend in October! (sorry for the shameless plug)
Later,
Jon
Texas Outlaws Corvette Club
I can't speak for all the regions in NCCC, but we run so many laps in the Southwest Region for several reasons. 1. We do it because its REALLY fun! 2. It attracts racers from other NCCC regions who are competing for points, which brings more entry fees our way. 3. In the SW Region we are Points Championship CRAZY. 4. My club is fairly busy with real-life stuff throughout the year, so we use our competition sanctions all in one weekend because its a pain to get together more frequently than that. 5. IMO, spending time with my NCCC family is WAY BETTER than spending time with my real family!
Keep the greasy side down and we'll see you at our 14 event Waco weekend in October! (sorry for the shameless plug)
Later,
Jon
Texas Outlaws Corvette Club
07-11-2010, 11:40 PM
#10
Burning Brakes
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Up here in Indiana we also run alot of 14 event weekends. I love that about NCCC over SCCA. That and the courses aren't set up for miatas, they are made for corvettes. I love to go out there and run my car even if there is no competition (wich with a 1976 2D car I don't see much). Although it is alot more fun when i have somebody to run against. For me I try to outrun my dad who has a 90 ZR-1, and I usually do!
The clubs will put on the 14 event weekends to hopefully attract the people from out of region who are points chasing. That way the club will get more money for their club. Most clubs that is their only funraiser for the year so they want as many cars there as they can. Each club has 7 sanctions they can use for the year. They can choose to use those up all in one day or spread them out through the year.
To me also the people at the NCCC event seem more freindly. I have went to a few SCCA events and people just don't seem freindly and everybody is so strict about everything. Autocrossing is about having fun. I like to go to the events to be around and talk to people as much as actually running the car. Most people in NCCC that I have met will bend over backwards to help someone even if it is their closest competitor. We are just one big family that gets together on the weekends.
The clubs will put on the 14 event weekends to hopefully attract the people from out of region who are points chasing. That way the club will get more money for their club. Most clubs that is their only funraiser for the year so they want as many cars there as they can. Each club has 7 sanctions they can use for the year. They can choose to use those up all in one day or spread them out through the year.
To me also the people at the NCCC event seem more freindly. I have went to a few SCCA events and people just don't seem freindly and everybody is so strict about everything. Autocrossing is about having fun. I like to go to the events to be around and talk to people as much as actually running the car. Most people in NCCC that I have met will bend over backwards to help someone even if it is their closest competitor. We are just one big family that gets together on the weekends.
07-12-2010, 12:26 AM
#11
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
I love that about NCCC over SCCA. That and the courses aren't set up for miatas, they are made for corvettes. I love to go out there and run my car even if there is no competition
I just like to run as many laps as possible. I think it's fun to drive your car at it's limits and compare how you stack up against other similar cars. That's what I really want to get out of autocrossing. And driving a long distance to just run a few laps just doesn't do it for me. I just wish there were more than 3 or 4 gatherings in Waco ever year. I wish they could hold at least a half dozen a year. I wouldn't mind a bit driving to Dallas, Austin, or College Station, but I'd expect to do more than just a few laps.
Agreed on the "designed for Corvettes" part. I've only been to NCCC events in Waco, and they do run a more open course where you can actually step on it. It's ashame though that the FAA won't let us go outside the fence anymore in Waco. It would be awesome if they'd let us use the whole tarmac outside the fence...that would kick ***!
07-12-2010, 09:38 AM
#12
Le Mans Master
There are several groups up here in the DFW area that gets you a minimum of 8 runs a day (BMW, PCA, etc). This weekend I ran with the Texas Time Trial group out at Mineral Wells.
Pretty cool group: no classification, no trophys, no points, just a bunch of drivers having fun. One car on course at a time, 3 consecutive hot laps, you police your own cones!, no course working (other than manning the timers for 15 minutes or so. Cones were on the honor system, knock down a cone and that set of 3 laps were DNFd.
I ran 12 laps, and had the opportunity to run more.
We're also right in the middle of a bunch of fun tracks to run HPDEs on. Harris Hill in San Marcos, Motorsports Ranch has two facilities, one SW of Ft. Worth and one west of Houston, and of course TWS.
HTH, and have a good one,
Mike
Pretty cool group: no classification, no trophys, no points, just a bunch of drivers having fun. One car on course at a time, 3 consecutive hot laps, you police your own cones!, no course working (other than manning the timers for 15 minutes or so. Cones were on the honor system, knock down a cone and that set of 3 laps were DNFd.
I ran 12 laps, and had the opportunity to run more.
We're also right in the middle of a bunch of fun tracks to run HPDEs on. Harris Hill in San Marcos, Motorsports Ranch has two facilities, one SW of Ft. Worth and one west of Houston, and of course TWS.
HTH, and have a good one,
Mike
