steve J06

again with the idea of a 'streetable' roll cage.... your input needed.

It seems to be well established that:
(Speed) - (roll cage) = stupid and/or dead to prove it.
(roll cage) - (helmet) = bad idea
5 pt harness - HANS = bad idea
and finally that containment must be designed for its purpose and there really isn't a good compromise between track toy and a street vehicle other than to use a harness and helmet all the time if a cage is present.

With that in mind: Is there a S/A rated open face helmet with wide visibility to use on the street? Could that same helmet be used with a Hans of sorts?

I'm planning a project that would be mostly a track toy but usuable (barely) for occassional club drives in the mtns. besides, the still street legal idea gives it better acceptance at home.

steve

ps. this will be a track car above all else.

Zenak

cage and roll bar list is here:

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/auto...e-learned.html

In towards the end.

The Wolfe 6 point cage set up is very streetable, cost effective and relatively easy to install. If you need the car "certed" for a certain type of racing, then you need to find the requirements ie) SCCA, NASA, NHRA because then you have little choice when they will be inspecting and certifying.

AU N EGL

the stock AS IS Wolf roll bar most likely will not pass SCCA or NASA tech. Some additional tubes and a more secure floor mounting would be needed.

steve J06

I'd be worried about the cranium meeting the main hoop w/o a helmet in the six point setup. My thinking is that once there is a roll hoop, a helmet is needed.

think maybe i'm really asking if an open face helmet with a wide visibility could be used on public road in a cage/harness situation and what are the drawbacks. My understanding is that if a harness is used at least some form of HANS-type device is warranted to prevent excess forces in the neck. Would this be adaptable to an open face helmet? Is there a device that would still allow reasonable head movement? (I've not tried any yet).

Zenak- thanks for the compilation of info.

Zenak

Like I said he has to figure out WHAT KIND of racing and certs he will need prior to picking a set up. If its just HPDE racing, the Wolfe is fine and very streetable.

Jason

For HPDE, I would, and did, use a harness bar, 5pts, good seat and a HANS. The odds of rolling a Corvette are pretty slim in my mind. 1 fairly light frontal impact into a tire-wall with no injuries or soreness seemed to have proved this as a reasonably safe setup. Now that I'm competing in Time Trials, the level of speed/crazy has gone up significantly, and we're putting a full cage into the car.

gkmccready

Rollbars & cages are supposed to be padded wherever you head can contact them anyway... right?

ErnieN85

yes but that isn't near enough I wouldn't want to hit my head during a crash with the usual padding! it's alright for just climbing around in the car but that's it

GettReal

I have a proper 6pt roll bar welded in and the top bar sits right at the roof...its so tight that it pushes the roofliner up a little and on that bar I have padding.

I use the Longacre padding that I would call a medium density. There is that spongy padding thats pretty soft and then the hard stuff made by Kirkey.

For the street I use my 3 pt belt and with no helmet I'm not even close to the bar.

For the track I use a 5 pt harness, full face helmet and Defender Neck Brace.

Its the closest compromise I could get for safety for both the street and track but mainly for the track.

longdaddy

if you must drive on the street with a full cage, at least get a full containment seat and wear harness, this way you will minimize the chance of cage-head contact in a street collision

do you see anything wrong with these pictures?

http://www.wolferacecraft.com/images...e/c5cage40.jpg

http://www.wolferacecraft.com/images...e/c5cage41.jpg

Bink

Don't waste your money on a wolfe. I removed mine last weekend -cut it up and it's in the dumpster. It was a six point (removable doorbars), bolt-in, as shown in the linked pics above. I'm sure it's fine for drag racing ... but, I wouldn't want to be tagged from the side/doors.

steve J06

That's what i originally thought but also wondered about the increased peak forces on the neck caused by the better retention of the torso in the harness.

longdaddy

you are not likely to get into high-g/rapid deceleration frontal impact on the street (as long as you pay attention to things) and you should be wearing HANS or other neck protection system on the track anyway.

Having said that, roll bar mounted to the frame can be an acceptable (to you) compromise in the dual use car - your are not likely to contact it, since there is a seat back between your head and the tubing and you still get some roll protection and safe mounting points for your harness. You miss out on side protection and you have fewer failure points in a high speed roll over before your head becomes one.

I currently have a 4pt roll bar, but if I had access to a tow vehicle/trailer/storage I would get a full cage into my car in a heartbeat, even if I would never plan to race it w2w. ultimately, it is the only way to go without making safety compromizes.

I do not agree with the notion that something is "OK" for HPDE while being unnacceptable for racing. the walls don't care if you are "getting educated" or racing for a prize.

AU N EGL

removable door bars are a false scene of security. They dont do squat.

and Many ppl agree with LD here: the likelihood of roll over is very small. The likelihood of side impact or frontal is very high. Not from other cars, but from your own mistakes.

Tire walls are hard as hell. Concrete walls or armco is even harder and NOT FORGIVING.

gkmccready

And get a seatbelt ticket... most harnesses are not DOT approved...

longdaddy

put both on.

2000BSME

ifl

Wayne O

IMO much depends on what specifically you do with the car and your own personal tolerance for risk but I know firsthand the compromises one makes when running a dual use (street/track) car. After years of evolving I'm just now to the point of calling my car a dedicated track car. This will finally allow me to finish setting the car up the way it should be. I don't have any regrets on what I've done (or haven't done) to this point but I know focusing solely on track use will be best.

BTW, I have the FIA Institute guide for the use of the HANS device. If you're interested PM me your email address and I'll be happy to send it to you.

steve J06

what???


Like you I am trying to make an informed personal compromise choice on this issue. My thinking is that it will be a track toy 1st and the limited street use will be just that - very limited. Maybe 2-3 days a year. So track cage and safety is priority. Just want to be fully aware of the compromises and their costs in a street situation.

Somebody mentioned the issue of a Harness not being DOT approved - duly noted. I'd much rather break the law and be personally informed of the risks instead of just continuing to use the 3-point factory harness with blind acceptance.

Does anyone know of a source for some of the crash forces and outcomes? a research web site or similar? For example the crash between Jan and Jorge at laguna seca last season was purported to generate 50g of force but i've only read this in second hand sources not in the original analysis. Is this published by the SAE?

thanks,
steve

longdaddy

here's a place to start if you want to get all scientific about it

ftp://ftp.rta.nato.int/PubFullText/R...HFM-113-06.pdf