0Superman09

Hello all,
I am a newb to road racing. Have only done drag racing myself. Looking at both roadracing and Auto-X, just from the broad basics of both, the longer roadracing tracks seem to tickle my fancy you could say a bit more vesus the tight tracks of auto-x. I have read the newb threads already and they had some great starting tips. Looking now as to what my car needs and what I need to get started in road racing.
Heres some info...

I'm in Michigan.... what do I have nearby for some good tracks?
Car is a 1999 C5 coupe, performance mods are vararam and corsa. Car has PFADT coilovers for suspension, and thats about it. What might you suggest I look into for setting up the car more? I like the reliability of the stock engine for now while I get used to racing the car. What type of wheels would you suggest and tires. Nothing serious obviously but maybe a mix of some OEM wheels to get it same size front and rear? How wide to go? Good diameter to use? Tire size?

What do I need personally to start racing the car? Do I have to get certified or anything? How do I go about getting started in road racing? I see these videos of advanced drivers on such tracks as Pocono and that type of racing looks to be a complete blast!


Lastly I'd like to thank you for your input and being able to help a newb with basic questions. In the mean time I will keep searching and will wait for some responses. Thanks a lot!

-Jon

0Randy@DRM

Here is a great list of track events in the area. I look at it once a week, thanks Joel for spending the time to do it.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/auto...-schedule.html

Drag racing equals horsepower and traction.

Road racing equals cooling and brakes.

Both require a driver (YOU)

Most clubs will have a novice program. Find a event in the above link and contact the group. I was a novice this year to actually driving on the road course, and found it very easy to work my way up using the resources offered at the track. Don't set the world on fire your first time out, it takes some time. Spend money on braking, cooling, tires and driver. Forget horsepower for a year or two, then give me a call

We have been setting up cars for this type of use for many years. Check out our website for roadracing products and there is some good info in there also. IF you have any questions let us know.

Randy
www.dougrippie.com

AU N EGL

NASA Midwest and NASA Great Lakes

http://www.nasamidwest.com/ http://www.nasagreatlakes.com/

They have both the HPDE programs and Wheel 2 Wheel racing

both of those regions schedules are here

http://www.nasagreatlakes.com/season/


there is an event Sept 4-5-6 at Gingerman race way in South Haven MI

http://www.gingermanraceway.com/

Jason

Don't discount autox too quickly. It's a great, cheap, safe way to learn the limits of your car and work on your car control.

argonaut

When I first started my only setup was: hi-temp brake fluid, SS lines, Hawk HT-10 pads and some good street tires. This will serve you well for a while and is all you need to participate in HPDE events, along with a good helmet. Seat time is by far the most important "mod". After doing that for a while if you still want to do w2w racing you'll need to get licensed and determine what class you want to run in and then build the car for the class.

Many of us run the C5 Z06 rear rims all around. But...they are getting harder to find these days for a decent price. Between 275 and 315 is the common range of tire sizes.

I've done both track and AX quite a bit and they are both a blast but very different. AX is much cheaper if thats a consideration but I now prefer the high speeds of a track. Try them both.

You are right, it is a blast. Welcome to the fun!

0Superman09

thank you for the help! which brand street tires would you recommend and how about fitting larger tires up front on the c5z wheels offset?

for all you experienced racers, how would you suggest i go about getting started in road racing? a school? i really have no idea how to start or what i need. thanks!

imp zog

I would recommend doing nothing to the car at first, until you have brought yourself to a good comfort level with road course driving. IMO, the worst thing you can do is put racing pads and R-compound tires on for your first events because they will allow you to do dangerous things like braking too late or carrying too much speed into a corner when you likely aren't ready to handle the negatives of those scenarios yet. Keep it simple; street tires and brakes will have you scrubbing off speed a bit sooner to maintain comfort level until you learn the nuances of the entry, apex, and track out for the corners on the particular track you are one. Leave AH/TC system on until such time as it is impeding you in case you do something horribly wrong; until you have developed the instinct/muscle-memory of what to do when you slide out of control, it may be the only thing that will keep you off the wall. When you start noticing that it is cutting the throttle on you as you accelerate (smoothly) out of a corner, that's when you know that you are getting to the point where it is impeding you.

The *one* thing I would recommend this car needs is a racing seat (which you can easily swap in/out for street and track events), as you will learn a lot more with one, because otherwise you get horribly distracted by sliding around and trying to wedge yourself in place with your knees. Aside from that, you will want a good helmet, a nice, thin-soled driving shoe, lots of water, and some sunscreen. Oh, and take a trip to the dentist to get a good cleaning done just before that, because for the next few days after your first time out, that's all anyone is going to see, what with the big goofy grin you will be sporting.

AU N EGL

Go to the NASA web sites above. Start off with a HPDE ( High Performane Drivers Event ) then if you want to get into racing, keep going to the NASA events, watch the races, check the tech info to mod your car as needed. Mostly saftey items ( roll cage, seats, harnesses, brakes, cooling ) and eventually NASA Competition or Comp school

Good Luck

0Randy@DRM

The best tire for your first time out is anything with half thread or more. Not Drag radials.

Randy

L98Terror

Where in Michigan?

0Superman09

very cool that you just responded! i am in port huron. my buddy told me last night to send you a pm on motown (99lswon) and i was just about to do it. any information or help you have for me, i am all ears! i hear your vette is one bad machine! i hear youre not too bad of a driver either, lol.... amazing titles!

Jon

wtknght1

You've gotten some good advice here. If I were in your shoes (which I was once), I'd do several HPDE events first. Just about any car club (Car Guys, Chin Motorsports, Z Clubs, Porsche, etc...) offers cheap ways to get on track. You can also check out Coco's site: www.trackschedule.com and then go to the "Calendar" and find something in your area. About all you need for an HPDE is a good helmet and car.

If you like it and pick it up pretty quick, then you'll need to mod your car for racing - cage, belts, seat, tires, brakes...and cubic dollars!!!! Each sanctioning body has it's own rules and what you can and can't do. For the SCCA, their rule book is called the General Competition Rules (GCR). I would not try to build your own car though. There are plenty of racing cars out there that are well sorted and ready to go. You'll save yourself a lot of time, money and hassle getting one that's already built.

No matter what form of racing you are considering, it is expensive!!! I've told people that in SCCA T1 (Touring 1), pretty much every time I leave the house to go to a National event, I drop $3K, and that assumes no damages. It adds up quickly!

Once you get the car safe and ready to go, you'll need to attend an SCCA or NASA school (or two) to get your novice permit. Once you get your permit, you'll need to do some regional races and keep your nose clean to get your regional license. Once you do a few regionals, you can get your national license and qualify for the Runoffs or whatever championship race they have.

And finally, there was a comment made earlier about leaving TC/AH on when you start learning. I disagree with that...but I don't want this thread to turn into that discussion. But I always tell my students to leave it off! If you run on track with that on, it develops some very bad habits that are hard if not impossible to cure later on. It also burns up your brakes.

Good luck and have fun!

drivinhard

Drugs are looking better and better

AU N EGL

PushinTheLimit

I was in your shoes not too long ago as I was looking to get into racing myself. I'm still in the process of getting there as I have a T1 vette locked up to buy and just saving the cash to finally pay it off and go pick it up.

If you've not done any racing at all in your vette... I would suggest starting out in autoX. Like Jason was telling you, it really will help your car control skills at a slower speed than you will see on an open track. So if something goes wrong, it typically won't be as bad as on the track. You will learn alot of things there that can transfer to your open track skills.

Then go out and try a few HPDE's with NASA or any car club that's been mentioned and see how you like it. You will have alot of good feedback from instructors that can work on your weaknesses. If this still leaves you wanting for more... then you need to look at either Time Trials or Wheel 2 Wheel.

And like Chris said... even a T1 class is not cheap. There's alot of things you have to buy up front to start wheel 2 wheel that you don't have to in Time Trials. But by the same token, its the most fun you can have in your car. Just start searching around, ask alot of questions and good luck.

0Vector Vette

Jon,
In this area we are blessed to have several tracks around us. The tracks that are near you are:
Waterford Hills - near Detroit
Grattan - Near Grand Rapids
Gingerman - Near South Haven
Autobahn - Joliet, IL
Blackhawk Farms - near Rockford, IL
Road America - Elkhart Lake, WI
Mid Ohio - Lexington, OH
Mosport - east of Toronto

I would recomend you get as much seat time doing HPDE's to find out if this is something you are good at or even like before you start building or buying a racecar. Crossing that line to racing is a big step and you should make sure that you are informed and ready before making that leap. If you are thinking that racing is the end goal, then I think NASA is a good place to start because they have a good ladder system in place to take you from HPDE, to time trial, to racing. They have an event this weekend at Blackhawk Farms and next weekend at Mid Ohio.

There are 2 sanctioning bodies out there to race with, SCCA and NASA. With a C5 Corvette you can race with SCCA in T1 or STO. In NASA you can run ST1 or ST2. They all have differant rules you have to follow and each has its plus and minus. I will be glad to give you some giudance as to what those are if you want to contact me. We can also assist or build your racecar if that is the road you end up going down.

Let me know if I can help or if you have more questions.

Robert Finlayson
Performance AFX Motorsports
815-254-2631

imp zog

Ha ha! I kinda knew I'd stir up a little bit'o'worms when I added that!

As instructors, we have always said flat out to turn it off, as you don't want crutches to learn. But given insurance and legal woes these days, it's likely best that we specifically not *instruct* them to turn it off. To do so leaves a (questionable, depending on how good their lawyer is) legal liability on the instructor if the student crashes and says, "But my instructor told me to turn it off!".

What I do now is give students the option to turn it on or off, and explain the pros and cons of each. When I take them for a ride in my car, I show them why I *have* to turn it off, as it kicks in even on my warm-up lap. If they choose to leave it on, and if/when they do trigger it on the track, I make it a point to tell them, and let them make the decision on what to do about it. Besides, it's all part of the learning curve for their car, as they will be able to then recognize what's going on when they drive it on the street. You wouldn't believe how many people have never felt the ABS kick in before!

VetteDrmr

I'd also recommend autocross, but for a slightly different reason than what's been listed above, which are all good comments. Also, before going further, I really enjoy DEs for the fellowship and fun out on the track.

BUT, DEs are, by definition and intent, non-competitive. Autocross IS competitive, and you'll find very challenging. Car mods make the game actually harder, because the competition gets higher and higher.

Also, because car speeds are slower, risk to the car is much lower, and therefore you can push your limits much further than on the track, where the consequences of blasting through a corner are usually much more significant than whacking a cone. Don't get me wrong, its not IMPOSSIBLE to damage your car, just a lot harder.

Finally, here's a couple of autocross videos from earlier in the year. One slow, and one fast.

First, the slow:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NueC935pe_I

And then the fast:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZXMP8YvzBw

Enjoy!

Mike

CP Thunder

Autocrossers make great roadracers..........once they figure out how to get off the 'tight line'.........I would start there.......learn how to throw your car around and learn 'balance'........it will help greatly at the higher speeds of road racing..........

rfn026

I think the best thing is to just attend a few HPDEs. Leave the car alone. You have Gingerman and Waterford Hills in Michigan. Find out if you really want to drive your Corvette fast.

Keep in mind that most people don't come back to HPDEs after the first few events. Soooooo - don't spend a bunch of money on the car in the first year.

Your money is best spent on entry fees and motels. The more seat time you get the better you'll become. Right now you're the slowest part of the car.

If you just want to go out and have fun an HPDE will cost you maybe a thousand dollars a day when it's all said and done. If you want to race it's going to be between $5000 and $10,000 a day.

Let's say you plan on spending $20,000 a year on your hobby. You will be able to do at least 15 HPDEs. You'll be lucky to run two races on that budget.

One of the reasons for the popularity of HPDE events is you can drive your Corvette fast at a very reasonable cost. Racing on the other hand can destroy your financial security.

Richard Newton