NewFoundPower

This weekend was my first at the track with my new LPE oil cooler, and while I'm sure it helped, I'm wondering if it's enough. I went to TWS in College Station where it was in the mid-90s yesterday and today. I was driving pretty hard and my oil temp was 283 - 286 most of the time, and a couple of times it briefly got to 293. These are about the same temps I was getting at TWS in April when it was in the mid-70s, which was before I installed the cooler.

I was driving pretty hard all weekend so I'm not surprised it got that high in this heat, and I know without the cooler it would have been much worse. Last year in similar conditions I had it go into shut-down mode (or whatever it's called) where I was limited to 2000 rpm, and had to crawl back to the pits. I wasn't pushing the car nearly as hard that weekend compared to yesterday and today (different track & skill level).

Considering the ambient temperature, is this oil temperature range acceptable? Here in Texas there's a good possibility it will be this hot for at least 2 or 3 events per year that I won't want to miss due to an oil temp issue. Should I look into adding a second cooler in-line, mounted in front of the radiator?

I used Mobil1 10W-30 and kept it at 8.5-9 quarts total, adding as necessary. Oil pressure stayed ok at 36psi most of the time, and I was happily surprised that my coolant stayed down at 230 degrees. I didn't expect that to go down too with only adding the oil cooler.

68sixspeed

while hotter than optimal (250), it's about where my c5 runs too. (I tend to take a slower lap in 5th/6th gear once it hits 290, let it drop back to 270, get back on it.) Based on some info on this site I've changed to 15W50 mobil 1 ext performance - a bit higher viscosity at those temps (but they all get pretty thin near 300!), more zddp, etc. (Amsoil might be a better choice though)

I'd be hesitant on a second cooler unless you really have to- more strain on the oil pump. Is your cooler getting plenty of air? (I'm thinking if a small fan could be added?)

NewFoundPower

I didn't think about the extra strain on the oil pump, that's a good point. Hmmm. It's getting as much air as it can for where it is located (behind the radiator fans, in front of the P/S cooler). It gets the air after it comes out of the radiator which will be hotter than what goes in, but that's how the kit was designed. I don't see any room for another fan... could the flow rate of the stock fans be increased?

I've used 15W-50 before, it worked well for keeping pressure reasonable at high temps, but it still got up to 290+. Instead of being at 22-25psi where the 5W-30 was at that temperature, the 15W-50 was 33-36psi. Changing to a higher viscosity may be a good thing to include next time as well, but will that help keep the temperature down, or will it matter if not?

CHJ In Virginia

You need to reposition the cooler. It needs to go IN FRONT of the radiator not behind it. Where you have it positioned it does not get that much direct airflow and the air is hot coming out of the radiator. Build a small Z bracket and place it in front of the radiator at the bottom. You are going to have to get new lines but they are a minor cost compared to spun bearings. My oil temps run about 260 deg on a 100 degree ambient temp day at VIR in August.

AlwaysInBoost

I agree your mounting location has something to do with your high temps.
another option is to mount the cooler off to the side of the frame rails if you didn't want to block the rad.

NewFoundPower

I figured the mounting location had something to do with it, but I installed the Lingenfelter kit out of the box and that's where it's supposed to go with this design. I may not have bought it if I knew this ahead of time, but I suppose it's my fault for not doing more research or asking the right questions. I asked LPE about adding a thermostat for street driving in cool weather and they said I wouldn't need one, and I didn't get a response from DRM so that's how I chose. Oh well, lesson learned.

Anyway, so I've got this LPE kit installed and it seems like my options are as follows:

#1) Try again using race oil or Mobil 1 15W-50, re-evaluate after next track event.
*Easiest, but is it worth the risk of another weekend of high temps if it doesn’t work?

#2) Add second cooler to front of radiator in-line (before or after?) existing, modify existing lines, include thermostat or block off second cooler for cold weather street driving.
*How do I know if I'm over-working the oil pump? Is there such a thing as a mini-in-line pump that would help, or would that contribute to more pressure drop?

#3) Add second cooler to front of radiator, modify existing lines to reach new location, use existing cooler for transmission (maybe?).

#4) Re-locate LPE cooler to front of radiator with new bracket, modify existing lines to reach new location, toss the LPE mounting bracket.


The next events I’m planning to attend are August 1-2 and the following weekend 8-9. Since it’s likely to be very hot then too and I won’t have time to work on the car between events, I’d like to have it addressed before then. What would you do if it were your car? I may be able to get to the track on a Friday afternoon for a test with different oil if there’s any chance that would help…

Jason

#4 gets my vote.

wmckeenster

......but should you install cooler in front of a radiator in a race engine?....this would preheat and restrict air going into the radiator wouldn't it?

68sixspeed

x2 - yes it may restrict the airflow to the radiator in that area, but the water temps seemed fine. (230).

Example on the oil cooler theory, on 400hp sk modified motors (2bbl carb class), running the oil cooler costs 8-10hp. a lot of times we only ran them on hot days - when they were not needed or for qualifying heats we didn't run them. I figure 8-10hp is a lot of strain on the oil pump, cam gear, timing chain, etc. But if you are pushing 300 on temps, it's probably a good idea to run a cooler. I keep pushing my luck w/o it, but if I was in a warmer area of the country or did a lot of summer track days I'd add it for sure.

0Randy@DRM

I'm so sorry that you didn't hear back from US. I'm here from about 8am to 10pm during the week and 10am to 11pm on the weekends. With the million different ways of getting a hold of us it's hard to keep track of them all. If I can help in anyway let me know.

We don't run t-stats in our applications....
Randy

NewFoundPower

I was surprised the coolant temp stayed that low, it's normally much higher, easily over 250 when the oil is that hot. I assume they're related but don't know enough about the block design to be sure... anyone?

I also didn't realize an oil cooler would require that much hp to operate, that's very good info to have. That definitely makes me re-think the second cooler... but I wouldn't have thought of that on my own, I'm sure I saw something about that in another thread on oil coolers. How are multiple oil coolers normally managed?


Me too! Then I would only have to install an oil cooler once! It looks like I'll need at least some mounting brackets and line extensions, maybe a cooler too, so I'll let you know when I decide.

kelp

Depends on the temp drop you desire, and how much power you're developing. Get the oil cooler away from your water radiator. Install a second one, also. Behind where the fog lights were is a good place, and vent them. There are a few other locations.

worldsaway

There is also another benefit to a second oil cooler, volume (think air cooled/oil cooled porsche, like 12 quarts for a 911). Additional volume could transfer more heat. Well, maybe.

NewFoundPower

I'd certainly prefer as much drop as I can get while keeping the oil above operating temperature and without tearing the car apart to install coolers. The engine isn't too radical - it's a new LS6 crate motor with LG Pro long tubes and a Vararam, it makes 375 rwhp un-tuned.

How does one address the issue of over-stressing the oil pump with even more volume than is already added? I agree that more volume will decrease temperature since that creates a large heat sink, I just need to address the oil pump and mounting issue.

kelp - did you mean anything specific by "vent them" or just to make sure there is good airflow through the cooler? I'm thinking about getting a cooler to fit in that area and can't see a lot of room... would one mount to the front bumper (the frame part of it)?

kelp

Your water temp is about as high as I like to see, the oil is too high for me. I never understood why one cooler (oil) is placed tandem to another (waer) cooler. Venting or good airflow, either way. There is a large space in the fogs area. Never missed the fogs. I put two 10"x12" coolers with a fan. Cutting an airflow space in the wheel well is needed. Last, the oil pump is unaware of volume, it just pumps. Both your water and oil temp will drop quite alot. Running cooler is much easier on engine parts.

wallyman424

volume yes, but adding an extra cooler and plumbing will increase the resistance of the system, increasing the strain on the pump.

I dont know if its been said with conviction yet, but all you need is 1 properly set up cooler on an LS6. Put it infront of the radiator, or wherever you can to get clean airflow and be done with it.

jiggyracing

here in AZ i go with the LG 'water' radiator with oil cooler and a second Ligenfelter oil cooler mounted in front of my radiator. I also made sure that my hoses were well insulated. up until recently (before changing race classes), my catalytic converters were in place. after installing an accusump, my oil temps were too high. i discovered that one of my accusump lines was near my cats. after insulating the plumbing, oil temp went way down. while you dont have an accusump, you may want to check your plumbing and consider some heat insulation material at appropriate spots.

C66 Racing

For what its worth, my oil cooler is mounted right in front of my DRM radiator, as is my tranny cooler. With the DRM radiator, my coolant temp stayed pegged at 190-200F during two races at 70F.

My oil temps running the AMSOIL Dominator Synthetic 10w30 Racing Motor Oil and/or AMSOIL SAE Synthetic Premium Protection 10w40 was about 230-240F in 70F ambients at a race at Portland last month and similar at a race at Portland last fall. Both of these are high ZDDP oils.

NewFoundPower

Do you have any pictures of your setup? It sounds very intersting, I'd like to see what you did.


How does one know when the pump is or could be strained too much? Where would a failure point be?

Haha, thanks! The oil cooler in front of the radiator setup seems to work well for most people, but a buddy that was with me running right at the same times in a 440rwhp C6 has his cooler in front of the radiator and was at about 275 deg most of the time. That's not that much cooler than I was at, and isn't that still too hot anyway?


jiggy - good idea, I didn't insulate the hoses so I'll have to look in to that too. Any particular product that works well?


Wow, I can only imagine how nice it must be to run that cool!

Would insulating the lines and changing to a high-ZDDP oil help me out any? Enough to be safe?

wallyman424

I can't say (and im not sure anyone will be able to) when the oil pump would be under too much strain.

What a lot of people forget is that LS motors like to run hotter than your everyday motor. 275 is just fine.