Warrnaty and Aftermarket Tunes
02-16-2009, 11:33 AM
#1
Drifting
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Warrnaty and Aftermarket Tunes
I work for a Chevy dealership and peruse emerging issues when wor is a bit slow. An interesting issue came up in Jan I thought might be of interest here. As of Jan, we are to look for aftermarket tunes on any vehicle brought in for drivability concerns & warranty work comes into play. Aftermarket NON GM tunes will VOID your powertrain warranty. PERIOD!!!
Here is an excerpt:
HTH
Bob
Here is an excerpt:
Originally Posted by GM EMRGING ISSUES
Calibration checks before replacing engines and transmissions
Now, our next topic is a very serious matter. It requires vigilance on the part of all technicians. Now, this is something that can cause a great deal of concern for vehicles, for customers, and for your dealership. In the studio with us today we have Jay Dankovich, the Brand Quality manager for powertrain. He's going to be talking about aftermarket non-GM calibrations. Welcome, Jay.
JAY DANKOVICH: Thanks, Mike.
MIKE SCULTHORPE: All right, Jay, now, we're going to start off with some of the bigger problems here and then afterwards definitely going to open up the phone lines; any technicians having any questions, please, hit those call buttons and we'll let you know about that. Now, Jay, I understand there is an increasing number of part failures that we're seeing. What can you tell us about that?
JAY DANKOVICH: Well, you're exactly right, Mike. Since we were here several months ago we were seeing an increased number of warranty failed material that frankly is the result of the use of aftermarket non-GM calibrations. And so we thought it was appropriate to come back and really step up our focus on this issue. It's not uncommon for us to see parts come back through warranty that are very similar to the ones that we -- I think we've got a picture of them here -- where because of the increased, either fueling or spark in the cylinder, we see failures like this that when we trace it back it looks like they're really the result of a non-GM aftermarket calibration. And so because of this and some other reasons we thought it was appropriate to really come back and refocus on this issue and bring it into an IDL broadcast once again. GM really spends a lot of time on the control calibration development and validation before they release a vehicle. They really try to bring in all the information so that you can get the best performance, reliability, durability, fuel economy and, above all, emissions performance, by using the GM released cal. It's certainly possible to tweak pieces of that calibration to get increased performance but it's not uncommon when you do that you're subjecting the rest of the powertrain to stresses from which we did not test or validate. So, whenever we find an aftermarket calibration that's not issued by GM, we will, in fact, void out the warranty on the powertrain.
MIKE SCULTHORPE: All right, well let's talk a little bit more about that. How do these aftermarket calibrations figure into the entire warranty process?
JAY DANKOVICH: Well, Mike, Warranty really only covers the equipment and calibrations that were released by General Motors at the time of sale or that we subsequently updated. And since these calibrations that are aftermarket and non-GM weren't developed or released by GM, we certainly can't warranty them.
MIKE SCULTHORPE: All right, good deal, Jay. Now, what if the aftermarket calibration is removed from the vehicle and the GM calibration is reinstalled?
JAY DANKOVICH: Well, that's a real good question, but if we know that there is an aftermarket non-GM calibration in the vehicle, even if it was removed, we will still continue with the cancellation and voiding of the warranty for the entire powertrain: engine, transmission, transfer case, if so equipped, prop shafts, and drive axles.
MIKE SCULTHORPE: All right, pretty serious stuff. Now, what other issues could come into play here? We've talked about part failures, but what else could happen that could have a major affect on these vehicles?
JAY DANKOVICH: Well, one of the things we spend a tremendous amount of time both developing and validating is emissions performance standards. We certify the emissions of a vehicle when it leaves our assembly plant and if someone were to alter any of the parameters or the calibration, it's likely that those emissions performance standards would be altered as well. And so, any technician that knowingly puts in a calibration that is not issued by GM, may be at risk for fines either from state or federal agencies if the emissions standards are also affected on the vehicle.
MIKE SCULTHORPE: All right, that's pretty clear cut. Now, what if we suspect maybe there is one of these aftermarket calibrations in the vehicle. How do we go through and detect that situation?
JAY DANKOVICH: Well, we've got a slide up here on the screen that talks about two very specific bulletins that General Motors has out there: 08-06-04-033 covers gasoline engines and automatic transmissions and there's very specific information on how to go back, check and validate using the instructions in that bulletin, whether, in fact, the calibration is GM issued or non-GM issued. The other bulletin is for diesel engines and it's very specific for those. We recommend that the dealership check for aftermarket calibration any time they really see a hard part failure of an internal engine component or an internal transmission component but, again, you know, commonsense should apply here as well. If it's a 3800 in a Buick and you know it's driven by a woman who's in her 80's, you know, it's probably not an aftermarket calibration
Now, our next topic is a very serious matter. It requires vigilance on the part of all technicians. Now, this is something that can cause a great deal of concern for vehicles, for customers, and for your dealership. In the studio with us today we have Jay Dankovich, the Brand Quality manager for powertrain. He's going to be talking about aftermarket non-GM calibrations. Welcome, Jay.
JAY DANKOVICH: Thanks, Mike.
MIKE SCULTHORPE: All right, Jay, now, we're going to start off with some of the bigger problems here and then afterwards definitely going to open up the phone lines; any technicians having any questions, please, hit those call buttons and we'll let you know about that. Now, Jay, I understand there is an increasing number of part failures that we're seeing. What can you tell us about that?
JAY DANKOVICH: Well, you're exactly right, Mike. Since we were here several months ago we were seeing an increased number of warranty failed material that frankly is the result of the use of aftermarket non-GM calibrations. And so we thought it was appropriate to come back and really step up our focus on this issue. It's not uncommon for us to see parts come back through warranty that are very similar to the ones that we -- I think we've got a picture of them here -- where because of the increased, either fueling or spark in the cylinder, we see failures like this that when we trace it back it looks like they're really the result of a non-GM aftermarket calibration. And so because of this and some other reasons we thought it was appropriate to really come back and refocus on this issue and bring it into an IDL broadcast once again. GM really spends a lot of time on the control calibration development and validation before they release a vehicle. They really try to bring in all the information so that you can get the best performance, reliability, durability, fuel economy and, above all, emissions performance, by using the GM released cal. It's certainly possible to tweak pieces of that calibration to get increased performance but it's not uncommon when you do that you're subjecting the rest of the powertrain to stresses from which we did not test or validate. So, whenever we find an aftermarket calibration that's not issued by GM, we will, in fact, void out the warranty on the powertrain.
MIKE SCULTHORPE: All right, well let's talk a little bit more about that. How do these aftermarket calibrations figure into the entire warranty process?
JAY DANKOVICH: Well, Mike, Warranty really only covers the equipment and calibrations that were released by General Motors at the time of sale or that we subsequently updated. And since these calibrations that are aftermarket and non-GM weren't developed or released by GM, we certainly can't warranty them.
MIKE SCULTHORPE: All right, good deal, Jay. Now, what if the aftermarket calibration is removed from the vehicle and the GM calibration is reinstalled?
JAY DANKOVICH: Well, that's a real good question, but if we know that there is an aftermarket non-GM calibration in the vehicle, even if it was removed, we will still continue with the cancellation and voiding of the warranty for the entire powertrain: engine, transmission, transfer case, if so equipped, prop shafts, and drive axles.
MIKE SCULTHORPE: All right, pretty serious stuff. Now, what other issues could come into play here? We've talked about part failures, but what else could happen that could have a major affect on these vehicles?
JAY DANKOVICH: Well, one of the things we spend a tremendous amount of time both developing and validating is emissions performance standards. We certify the emissions of a vehicle when it leaves our assembly plant and if someone were to alter any of the parameters or the calibration, it's likely that those emissions performance standards would be altered as well. And so, any technician that knowingly puts in a calibration that is not issued by GM, may be at risk for fines either from state or federal agencies if the emissions standards are also affected on the vehicle.
MIKE SCULTHORPE: All right, that's pretty clear cut. Now, what if we suspect maybe there is one of these aftermarket calibrations in the vehicle. How do we go through and detect that situation?
JAY DANKOVICH: Well, we've got a slide up here on the screen that talks about two very specific bulletins that General Motors has out there: 08-06-04-033 covers gasoline engines and automatic transmissions and there's very specific information on how to go back, check and validate using the instructions in that bulletin, whether, in fact, the calibration is GM issued or non-GM issued. The other bulletin is for diesel engines and it's very specific for those. We recommend that the dealership check for aftermarket calibration any time they really see a hard part failure of an internal engine component or an internal transmission component but, again, you know, commonsense should apply here as well. If it's a 3800 in a Buick and you know it's driven by a woman who's in her 80's, you know, it's probably not an aftermarket calibration
HTH
Bob
02-16-2009, 11:46 AM
#2
Le Mans Master
Strong words, but I still think GM has to prove some relationship between the mod and the failure. An engine tune doesn't really correlate to a half-shaft failure, for example.
Also just re-affirms my belief in never buying a car with a warrenty. Buy it, break it, fix it myself!
Have a good one,
Mike
Also just re-affirms my belief in never buying a car with a warrenty. Buy it, break it, fix it myself!
Have a good one,
Mike
02-16-2009, 11:53 AM
#3
Drifting
If your warranty claim is denied because of an obvious modification then you will need to take GM to task to change that. I don't think they are going to argue with anyone over it and this reinforced the importance of the relationship with your local dealer.
02-16-2009, 12:30 PM
#5
Race Director
while I think it's ashame, I'm not surprised that GM is doing this. They get an automatic pass on ever having to repair cars, and that's a savings for them.
And in many cases, a tune doesn't really help (a stock car) in the real world. I had our Z06 tuned last year, and while it gained 25hp and I removed the torque management.......you guessed it, actual track performance didn't change a bit. I had the stock tune put back in.
Fortunately, it is very difficult to currently tell is a car has been tuned as long as the stock tune is put back in. However, my tuner tells me that going forward most of the cars have checksum values that change every time a tune is made/changed.....therefor, if your car has a non-original checksum value, and there is no record of GM ever updating your tune, they will know if you've tuned it. Appearantly, the diesel trucks had this technology first, and ANY PCM mods are easily detected by GM, even if the stock tune is reapplied.
And in many cases, a tune doesn't really help (a stock car) in the real world. I had our Z06 tuned last year, and while it gained 25hp and I removed the torque management.......you guessed it, actual track performance didn't change a bit. I had the stock tune put back in.
Fortunately, it is very difficult to currently tell is a car has been tuned as long as the stock tune is put back in. However, my tuner tells me that going forward most of the cars have checksum values that change every time a tune is made/changed.....therefor, if your car has a non-original checksum value, and there is no record of GM ever updating your tune, they will know if you've tuned it. Appearantly, the diesel trucks had this technology first, and ANY PCM mods are easily detected by GM, even if the stock tune is reapplied.
02-16-2009, 01:32 PM
#6
Le Mans Master
Have a good one,
Mike
02-16-2009, 02:54 PM
#8
Don't get me wrong: I'm the first one to stand up for taking responsibility for your actions. I'm just saying that GM can't just say "well, you made a mod to your car" and justify voiding ALL warrenty claims. I don't remember the name of the law, but that one's already been through the courts.
Have a good one,
Mike
Have a good one,
Mike
Also states they cannot void your entire warranty for installing one part, such as a cold air intake or a cat back exhaust. It does go on to state that they do NOT have to warranty any parts that were no OEM (obviously they don't want to replace that $1,000 BORLA catback because something went wrong with it, when they didn't install it.)
02-16-2009, 04:53 PM
#10
Race Director
while in theory I agree that a tune will likely do less "harm" than an intake, headers, whatever.......a tune has the potential to wreak all kinds of havoc. Anything from emmissions violations, to uncontrolled spark knock, to potentially enough power to damage the powertrain.
I know Porsche dealers that actually sell/install tunes on cars, and while I think that is great, I think we'll be lucky if GM has the money to honor warranty's one totally stock cars, let alone ones that have been altered.
Would be great to see someone more familiar with the Moss-Magnusum Act analyze the GM thread from above!
I know Porsche dealers that actually sell/install tunes on cars, and while I think that is great, I think we'll be lucky if GM has the money to honor warranty's one totally stock cars, let alone ones that have been altered.
Would be great to see someone more familiar with the Moss-Magnusum Act analyze the GM thread from above!
02-16-2009, 06:14 PM
#12
Safety Car
while in theory I agree that a tune will likely do less "harm" than an intake, headers, whatever.......a tune has the potential to wreak all kinds of havoc. Anything from emmissions violations, to uncontrolled spark knock, to potentially enough power to damage the powertrain.
!
!
I can see waiting until the car is out of warranty to mod.