kwhiteside

Last month I did my first track event at Roebling Road. One week before the event I put on a new set of Hawk HP+ pads.

This weekend I pulled them off and put my Ceramics back on for daily driving. The squeal was getting unbearable btw.

My front pads were surprisingly jacked up. The factory black coating on the back of each pad was totally flaking off. Even though there is a lot of pad left, I'm thinking they are unusable and am wondering if this is normal under racing conditions? I did engage the ABS going from 130 down into turn 1, and then again after the sweeping left into turn 4. I'm sure that is pretty hard on brake, but I bought these because they were supposed to be the best for exactly what I was doing? Unless everybody says they are the greatest pads and I had something wrong, I'll not use HP+ again.

On a side note, I could never get those HP+ brakes to not squeak. I did the 80-10 quick slow down to bed them in before the track and that helped quite a bit, but it did not eliminate the squeak. The two weeks I've driven it since the track, with the HP+ still on, has been embarrassing because every stop, hard or soft, squeaks. Now that I have the ceramics back on, it is nice and quiet again. I did notice one thing while swapping them out last night. One caliper in the back and one in the front was missing that metal clip that goes in the top of the caliper. Don't know for how long as I did not notice in the last 4 times I messed with them. They were so dirty from the racing pads I felt I should clean the undersides too, and that is when I noticed. I know, novice stuff. What are those metal clips actually for and should I go buy a new set and put them all in?

Mjolitor 68

Race pads squeek, but my car is so loud I can barely hear the squeek

when you remove the pad and you look at it, see how thick it is in profile and look at the face, if you see any fracture lines the pad is junk. If you dont then you can use it some more

wmk32

Hmm, I had several fracture lines from a track weekend on some Carbotech's - all i did was grind them down a little through the glaze and the fracture lines were gone. They seemed to work fine on Saturday but i've yet to pull them off the car and see how they look now.

I would get rid of the HP+ altogether. They are less than confidence inspiring pads and will always squeal like a pig on the street.

kwhiteside

Did a search and it seems the Hawk DTC-70 are highly recommended for the fronts. Even though I have a lot of pad left on the HP+ front pads, I don't like the way the backing is flaking off and don't feel comfortable using them again. Most likely will just toss them and get an front pair of DTC-70. Next track day probably wont be till March.

MungoZ06

HP+ are a performance street/entry track pad. They have wear indicators (one end), and should be installed such that the indicators are on the trailing edge of the caliper. No big deal if you don't have them.
Don't worry about the paint flaking off the backing plate ... that's just the price of heat. ... when you go to a full track pad you'll burn off your caliper piston boots
Now ... if the pad material starts disintegrating, that means you're putting more heat into the pad than they're rated for ... means you need to add cooling ducts or go to a higher-rated (read: track) pad (or preferably both)
And ensure you're running DOT4 fluid.

kwhiteside

I'm already using the Blue Mogul Dot4 and stainless braided lines to avoid brake fade.

c4cruiser

Did you follow the Hawk bedding procedure immediately after installing the HP+ pads? IIRC that is 5 or 6 fairly hard slowdowns from 45-50 to 10-15 MPH followed by 3-4 similar stops from 35 to 10 and then allow the pads to cool for at least 15 minutes with either no driving or street use with minimal stops. 80-10 may have glazed the pad and/or rotor surface and that is where you would hear squealing.

Bedding allows some of the pad material to transfer to the rotors to improve performance. For you next track day, you may want to have the rotors turned just enough to smooth out the surface then re-bed the pads.

The steel backing plate is just painted with black paint. The pads will get hot enough to blister the paint and that is what most likely what happened.

The metal clips are supposed to keep the pad in place and keep them from rattling (they're called anti-rattle clips). On the C5 brakes, you are supposed to use them with non-factory pads. I would get another set and install them for the next track day. They aren't expensive.

The HP+ pad is a good entry level track day pad that you can use on the street. They do tend to squeal when cold and it takes a few fairly hard stops to build up some heat for them to start working. I use them on my 87 for track days, but I do remove them for general street driving. I use the Hawk HPS pad for street use and autocross.

As long as there are no signs of cracks or taper, and there is still at least 50% pad left, they should be OK.

Some tracks are harder on brakes than others and if you do have lots of hard braking, you might want to think about some front ducts, a DOT4 brake fluid that has a high wet boiling point, and do a flush before each track day.

If you go to a true race-level pad, you may find that street braking performance will suffer. Some folks will have separate pad/rotor setups just for track days and swap them accordingly.

MungoZ06

Ah HA! ... missed that ... I was thinking pad wear indicators ... above is true ... you need the stainless steel pad guides in the calipers - and use some high-temp silicone lube on the pad ears and slides ...

kwhiteside

Immediately, no. It took me a week to find a road where I was comfortable going fast, romping brakes to almost stop, 5 times over. In Atlanta, there is just so much traffic all the time, that kind of driving would get you in big trouble. After my bedding, I did smell the brakes giving up some pad.

Of course at the track they smelt real bad after every hot lap session. Again, I engaged the ABS at the track, but when I was bedding them I did not hit them hard enough to engage ABS.

Jason

The paint will flake off.
HP+ will squeak.
Both are completly normal.

DTC-70 will squeak more.

Just the nature of the beast.

RUN4CVR

HP + always squeal. I try to pull up next to older junk cars at stop lights so everyone thinks its not me.

Go to the DTC-70's but think about swapping out rotors with those pads. I'm pretty sure the DTC's will eat the OEM rotors for lunch. I've heard good things about the DBA rotors.

Also, try bedding your Hawks at night and watch the sparks fly!

kwhiteside

That old junk car comment made me LOL. People have been looking over at me, and I can see from the look on their face they expect to see that old junk car.

Adam@Amp'dAutosport.com

We don’t just sell you a set of brake pads; we deliver unmatched customer support and technical help. Carbotech Performance Brakes™ are also leading the way with Pro, Grassroots and Track-Day/HPDE groups and drivers. We can help you find the perfect set up for your vehicle by having an entire line up of street and track compounds for your application.

Carbotech Performance Brakes™ allows drives to Go Deep™ into the corners and out brake the competition. Carbotech have won multiple national championships, pro races, and rally races all over the world. Our race compounds start with the letters "XP™" then they are followed by a number. The first number is 8 (XP8™), and as you go up in numbers the initial bite gets much stronger, higher fade resistance, higher torque, better wear rate, and an increase in the temperature range. On that same note, as you go up in our compound numbers you will get more aggressive on the rotors.

Even our XP12™ compound is still very rotor friendly compared to the competition. With all Carbotech compounds you will have to apply a little bit more pedal pressure to get the maximum amount of bite from the brake pads. That's because you have the ability to modulate your pedal with our ceramic/kevlar compounds. That's a huge advantage to any driver, especially a driver who has a good feel for their car. The more you can modulate your brakes the more car control you have under braking. The more control a driver has under braking gives the driver an edge in the braking zone and the first part of a corner. Control which in the end helps you attain faster and more consistent lap times. Go Deep™

2. What causes brakes to make noise (squeal)?
Lack of friction material on the backing plate is the most common result of brake noise. Another reason for brake noise is that the pads are loosely fitted into the caliper. Debris caught between the brake pad and rotor is another of the common reason’s for brake noise. Loose lug nuts or caliper hardware. Cracked or worn rotors. Uneven finish on reconditioned (turned) rotors.

Loose or missing brake hardware (anit-rattle clips, shims) can be responsible for brake noise. There are steel springs and pins which allow the pads mounted in the brake calipers to move freely without rattling and vibrating excessively. However, due to the nature of your brake system, these pins and springs wear and loosen their tension over time. Worn pins can result in binding, squealing, brake fade, uneven braking and reduced pad life.

Sometimes brake noise on certain vehicles is completely normal and no maintenance is required. Brake noise can be caused by the everyday vibrations of daily driving on the brake pads, rotors, and calipers; whick is also known as Noise, Vibration and Harshness (NVH) a common term in the automotive industry.

http://www.ctbrakes.com/faqs.html

RusherRacing

I will take those Hawk HP+ off our hands. i am sure they will work for autoX some more.

But yea they will fade badly and you will really go through them on track days. I experienced that last year thats why I made the post brakes for the budget racer..

CarbotechDanny

kwhiteside,

First, all high performance brake pads will make some noise on the track and/or the street. Some compounds make more noise than other compounds, and some can make more noise depending on the metals used in a specific rotor.

Also, how much noise is too much noise varies quite a bit from one person to another. Yes, I would recommend getting those clips replaced. You don't have to worry about the paint flaking off the backing plate. That is normal. So are the little heat cracks on the surface of the pads and/or the rotors. As long as you can't put a dime in the cracks you don't have to worry.

Also, even though those HP+ pads might have worked at Roebling Road, they are not suitable for many other tracks in the Southeast (especially on a Vette). I know you're expecting me to say to you that you need Carbotech's (which wouldn't be a bad idea ), but Hawk has other more suitable compounds for your car.

davidfarmer

The black paint is just PAINT.......if they were working well for you, then use them up. While I agree HP+ pads don't work great for a car as heavy as a C5/C6 at some tracks, Roebling is relatively easy on braking.

For the money, I'd keep using the HP+ until you actually start having performance issues....they are relatively affordable, and work well as long as they don't get too hot.

sperkins

+1 for Carbotechs here as I love mine.

I can deal with the sqeaking and dusting as long as they stop the car from 150mph+ like I expect them to. So far they have - repeatedly.

klasik-69

First of all, Roebling is rather mild in terms of braking effort. Turn 1 and I believe 6 are the only hard braking points. I ran stock pads there for at least 4 track days and hardly had any wear even though I was around 160 mph heading into turn 1. Sebring and Daytona will test your brakes.

I've run stock pads, Hawk HPS and HP+, and recently Carbotech's XP12 one piece pads on the fronts. The Carbotech pad is the best in initial bite and modulation, as well as release when braking hard is essential. Life of the pad is limited. I got 3 track days at Daytona (roughly 320 track miles) and the pads are now basically down to 20% or less. To me, that's down to nothing.

Squeal factor....none with Carbotechs. Hawks HP+ will make you go deaf, and I'm already pretty well deaf anyway. Dusting.....HP+ will dust the most and its the hardest to clean off wheels. The Carbotechs were less dusty and the dust just blows off with air and very light cleaning. For me, the installation of the one piece pad is convenient and quick.

FasterIsBetter

If you are engaging the ABS, you are braking too hard. You might want to attend a racing school or get a good instructor in the car with you at your next track event. You need to learn threshhold braking, i.e., braking up to the edge of but not past the point where your brakes would lock up. It sounds to me like you may just have too heavy a foot on the brake pedal. Learning the "dance" of smooth driving, firm but not abrupt braking and working the physics of the racing line will relieve a lot of the pressure from your braking system.

I used HP+ pads with stock brakes on my '03 Z06 at many track events, and never had a problem with them. Yes, on the street they squealed a bit. But on the track, they worked fine. I ended up going to the Wilwood BBK on the car for other reasons, but the HP+ pads otherwise worked fine for me (as long as you don't mind brake dust).

kwhiteside

Hmmm, I was at a HPDE school. Both my instructor and the class master instructor encouraged using the ABS.

If you think about it, I pushed to the absolute limit before going off the track. Full throttle, maximum capable brake.

Perhaps you are not pushing as hard as you can!

If I'm wrong, let some of the other experts chime in. I know many of the instructers that were at my event have already posted on this thread.