Red5

What is proper edicut when road racing? Is it the same as for DE events? I知 coming from the exciting world of auto crossing and wanted to know a few things:

1. Insurance- If I知 out on a road course and some guy is driving out of control, blows through an S turn and through no fault of my own totals my corvette. Would he be responsible for repairing/replacing it? Are there two answers here? One for road racing and one for DE?

2. What if I am in a driving school and launch my vette into the trees. If I have USAA would it be covered? Do I need to inform them before I take the car to a track?

3. Generally speaking you guys don稚 like to trade paint during DE events, but how often does it happen? Any legal percussion as a result?

CHJ In Virginia

Do a forum search on track insurance. There have been multiple threads on this issue in the last 6 months. Bottom line, almost all companies now specifically exclude ANY track event from coverage. Insurance is available from a couple of specialty companies but very expensive. You are on your own on the track, no one elses insurance is going to pay a nickle for any accident, etc. If you can't afford to ball your car up and throw it away you really need to think about what you are going to do.

davidfarmer

You are own your own........ no one else is going to pay for damage (even if they are at fault) and most insurance won't either. Plus if you hit a tree, not only will you pay for YOUR car, you'll PAY FOR THE TREE (and grass, and guardrail, and anything else)

In 20 year, I've only seen 1 or 2 multi-car incidents at a DE. The entire point is to keep control and communicate during passing etc.

Aggression has no place in DE's, and any student I have (or I see on track) that isn't in 100% control at all times is reported to whoevers in charge.

beerkat

If you can not afford to write off your car then do not put it on track. I been doing DE's for about 6 years and have only had minor damage to my car. It was my fault for spinning off track. I paid for it out of my own pocket.

Red5

This is what I figured.


In an effort to be considerate of other racers I didn't know if I should buy extra insurace or not. I don't want to risk loosing or raising the cost of my normal daily coverage.

Sound like I need to research what has already been discussed.

I'm looking forward to a few safe events this season.

AU N EGL

You are responsible for your OWN ACTIONS, no matter whos fault is was.

You pay to play.


I have seen one car 2 car ( front bumper to rear bumper ) tap in a DE. No damage, not even paint scrap.

Note: That FORM you sign at the Gate( for the facility), and at Event registration ( for the host organization and volunteers or other personal )? You (your family and heirs, and or anyone connected to you ) release anyone, everyone and the facility from harm, damage for litigation of any kind or type. Plus also state that you.

Here is the quote from the form:

"I HAVE READ THIS RELEASE AND WAIVER OF LIABILITY, ASSUMPTION OF RISK AND INDEMNITY AGREEMENT, FULLY UNDERSTAND ITS TERMS, UNDERSTAND THAT I HAVE GIVEN UP SUBSTANTIAL RIGHTS BY SIGNING IT, AND HAVE SIGNED IT FREELY AND VOLUNTARILY WITHOUT ANY INDUCEMENT, ASSURANCE, OR GUARANTEE BEING MADE TO ME AND INTENDED MY SIGNATURE TO BE A COMPLETE AND UNCONDITIONAL RELEASE OF ALL LIABILITY TO THE GREATEST ALLWED BY LAW."

If I have time latte I will type or scan the whole document.

tcmc5

However, as seen in the case of the Porsche Carrera deaths at Calif. Speedway a few years ago, when gross negligence is involved, the waiver may be trumped. The dead passenger's widow got big bucks, as I recall, from the track, from Porsche and the driver's estate.

Casem1

(concerning HPDE's only)

I called my insurance company before i ever went to the track. My agent actually talked to claims adjusters, area managers, the HPDE organizer, etc and their conclusion was as long as I am not being timed they will cover me.

Two things:
1.) I doubt they really will if anything ever happens.
2.) If the organization you run with allows aggressive driving (racing of any form) then you need to find a new organization. The group I run with will kick you out immediately. Pass with signals only and no monkey business.


Also, my car is not a daily driver and if i wreck it i wreck it. I would probably piece it back together and go back to the track. At least i don't have a lien.

If you do want to look into insurance, make sure you never say the word 'racing'.

rfn026

While I was at Sebring today at a Chin Motorsports event a guy totaled his new Porsche Cayman at turn 16. He overcorrected and hit the inside wall. Almost all novice drivers hit the inside wall at 16. The pros always hit the outside wall. It's all about the different skill levels.

I don't want to be a smart a*s but if you can't afford to roll it up in a little ball you probably shouldn't be out there on the track.

I've only seen one car-to-car in ten years of track events. I've seen a dozen or so people total cars from being stupid.

You are going to be your biggest problem on the track. Get in over your head and your car is history. Use some common sense and you're going to have fun. Remember - you are NOT a race car driver.

Richard Newton

cebars

My concern was liability insurance.....I was provided with the following response from SCCA to my question about liability insurance:

"SCCA liability and participant accident coverages apply to any SCCA sanctioned event whether it occurs in Canada or the US.

Please go on the SCCA website under the Insurance sections where there are summaries of the SCCA event insurance coverage. But in short, yes drivers and any SCCA event participant are included as an additional insured for third-party and participant legal liability claims in the amount of $10M."

I believe that NASA has similar coverage but not sure about Porche Club of America or any other Corvette Club track events.

The NCM HPDE's do not provide any participant liability insurance.

I don't think that this is the case for many tracks but one track had a program to add any participant in the HPDE events at that track as an additional insured to their liability insurance for a price.

I have seen threads on collision insurance for your car and you should find them in your search.

Sidney004

Just a correction; the case never went to trial, there was never any admission of wrongdoing by any of the defendants as it was a settlement, but you are right the widow did get big bucks from the track, Porsche, the driver's estate(i.e. insurance.) The waiver does not preclude you from filing suit and is just another factor in a jury arriving at a decision in the remote event that a case actually goes to trial or parties agreeing to a settlement out of court.

AU N EGL

You can purchase Lockton HPDE insurance for our events for your car.

Our event instructors and volunteers are covered under a umbrella liability policy.

Again Motorsports is about PERSONAL responsibility. If you are UNWILLING to take PERSONAL RESPONSIBLY for your actions, dont come. PERIOD.

If you are UNSURE about doing an HPDE and have to think about it, then IT IS NOT FOR YOU.

The incident that tcmc5 mentioned above has all clubs concerned about saftey. AND WHY it is vital that students SLOW DOWN and KEEP their eyes open and LISTEN to instructors.

We cater to the novice to intermediate skill level student and a few advance level student slots.

If you have ever come to one of our events you know the FOUR goals of our events.

If any of our students are going THAT fast and OUT OF control Our instructors know that student needs to sit in the pits or paddock for a time out.

Once in a while students and instructors just dont work out well together, that is OK and a change is made.

If someone wants an OPEN event with less rules, these events are available.

Take a look at the SCCA and NASA Polices very closely. That liability rider may be more limiting then you think. ( I have read the SCCA one and have the NASA copy)

The race organizations have rules. if you HIT SOME ONE, your arz is under review. If it was a small racing tap, you might get away with it but most likely you will get a warning.

If it was a deliberate hit, your history.
Remember race cars have roll cages and other safety equipment, plus strong racer training. So do not compare HPDEs to Racing. Two different things.

HPDE organizations have rules. You follow those rules or your OUT. No negotiations. if ands or buts.

AU N EGL

and some ppl wonder why Clubs require STOCK STREET TIRES, only OEM harness for novice, beginner and intermediate level students. and insist on a THIRD PARTY safety inspection prior to registration.

cebars

Thanks for the referral.

AU N EGL

Locktonaffinity is the company
Info
http://www.motorsportreg.com/index.c.../hpdeinsurance

and the link http://hpdeins.locktonaffinity.com/Default.aspx?cID=31

Bill Dearborn

The NCCC policy is a liability policy and when you sign the waiver you are covered by that policy up to the limits defined in the policy. It will not pay for damages to you or your property caused by you. It will pay for damages to you or your property caused by somebody else. If you read the complete waiver you will also see that besides all of the other legal talk it says you promise to not sue anybody else who has signed the waiver.

Bill

cebars

Thanks, again

The specified event damage coverage that Locton offers makes getting damage insurance easy and IMHO the rates are reasonable.

Do you know of anybody who offers specified event liability coverage as I could not find any liability coverage on Lockton's site.

I would hope that getting damage or for that matter liability insurance doesn't change the way a student drives at an HPDE. If it does, they shouldn't be there.

I liked Spring Mountain because they didn't let anyone get out of hand and be a risk to others, themselves or the school cars. I wasn't worried about having liability insurance there.

AU N EGL

Liability, try a normal umbrella policy.

and we dont let students get out of hand either. But do keep the FUN FACTOR high.

Jahan

I personally know people who have had claims paid using the "non-timed event" loophole, but they are being eliminated by pretty much every insurance company now that HDPE's are so popular and the people involved are getting younger and younger.

Personally, I wouldn't trust what an adjuster or manager says. When it comes down to paying out a $30,000 claim, they might change their tune really quick.