Initial impressions: EBC Yellow DM 1793 on a C6 Z51
12-02-2008, 03:14 PM
#1
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Initial impressions: EBC Yellow DM 1793 on a C6 Z51
I got these pads from Andy @ EBC a while back and got a chance to test them at Thunderhill yesterday. They were bedded in the day before.
A few things to note:
I did not change rotors. These are the stock Z51 rotors that have seen light street use with the stock Z51 pads, followed by track use with Carbotech XP10/XP8, and then switched out for AC Delco ceramics for light street use before seeing the EBC Yellows.
I am on street tires. Kumho SPT 245/40/18 and 285/35/19 stock C6 sizes.
I ran in the novice group (Limited/Instruction), with times of ~2:18 or so when not held up in traffic.
I am running Super Blue ATE fluid. No SS lines or spindle ducts (next on my list of things to get).
Results:
Fade: None that I could notice for how much I was pushing the car, but I also had plenty of cool down time once I caught up with traffic, so I can't really say how these will hold up to continuous lap after lap abuse.
Noise: Surprisingly little. I would actually say you could use these on the street as far as noise is concerned. This wasn't the case with the Carbotechs which squeal like crazy when cold and got me plenty of comments on how I need to fix my brakes (even from an instructor once).
Dust/Smell: These pads are absolutely noxious as far as smell. In fact, they produce far more odor than the Carbotechs after a session. So much so that I recommend standing a good distance from the car so that you're not smelling and breathing in the fine particulate dust. This is my biggest complaint as far as these pads go. They do produce a fair amount of dust on the wheels, but nothing you wouldn't expect from a set of track pads, meaning you probably won't want to use these too much on the street if you care about how pretty your wheels look.
Cold operation: The cold bite is not as good as the Carbotechs, but they work fine once warmed up at the track. I would be hesitant to use these on the street too much. Maybe just to drive to the track and back if you aren't into changing pads at the track.
Wear: I haven't taken the pads off to check yet. I'll get back to you on this later.
Thanks again to Andy for providing the pads for testing. I will be heading back to THill in early January for a 2 day event and will follow up with additional feedback.
*********UPDATE*********
I went to a 2 day driver safety event at Thunderhill with the Audi Club on Jan 10-11. Same setup. Kumho SPT street tires, stock power, stock suspension, ATE Super Blue fluid, no aftermarket brake ducts.
The car went through some slalom, threshold braking, and lane change exercises on the morning of the 10th. In the afternoon, it went for 2 sessions in the beginner A group, and 2 sessions in the instructor X group.
On the 11th, the car went for 1 session in the beginner A group, 3 sessions in the intermediate D group, and 2 sessions in the instructor X group.
All sessions were 30 minutes long, except for one during the A group and one during the X group in which the sessions had to be cut short to 20 minutes due to low fuel.
The odor I mentioned previously persisted through the first day, but was not noticeable on the second day.
My instructor noted that he felt fade after about 20 minutes of hard driving.
We managed to wear the pads down to the backing plates on the second day. Since we didn't want to hot change the pads, we decided to skip the last session of the day in the X group.
I have attached pictures of the pads.
Front left. Just a minor note, the outer plates fell off immediately after I slid the caliper off the pads.
Front right. Same as front left. The outer plates fell off immediately upon removal.
Rear left. Still a small amount of material left.
Rear right. Same as rear left. A small amount of material left. You can tell the paint blistered from the heat.
Overall, these pads survived 3 days, of which I would say 30% of the time, the car was probably caught up behind quite a bit of slower traffic in the beginner groups. I would estimate that in an intermediate group with my setup now, I would probably get about 2 days worth of driving from a new set. I would say that these pads are a satisfactory choice for beginners and intermediates who want an affordable brake pad, running street tires. I cannot comment on how these would last if you had R compounds. Thanks again to Andy for providing these pads for testing.
After some time contemplating the capabilities of these pads, I would say that they are a great pad for the price. The folks who will find these pads most useful are those who may be looking to become introduced to HPDEs, but are not yet going all out in higher intermediate or advanced groups. These are the folks who would like to slap the pads on at home, drive around on the street for a bit with no noise, are willing to deal with a little bit of brake dust (I do not believe it is excessive), and drive to the track. Assuming decent brake fluid, these pads will hold up just fine for such a driver.
A few things to note:
I did not change rotors. These are the stock Z51 rotors that have seen light street use with the stock Z51 pads, followed by track use with Carbotech XP10/XP8, and then switched out for AC Delco ceramics for light street use before seeing the EBC Yellows.
I am on street tires. Kumho SPT 245/40/18 and 285/35/19 stock C6 sizes.
I ran in the novice group (Limited/Instruction), with times of ~2:18 or so when not held up in traffic.
I am running Super Blue ATE fluid. No SS lines or spindle ducts (next on my list of things to get).
Results:
Fade: None that I could notice for how much I was pushing the car, but I also had plenty of cool down time once I caught up with traffic, so I can't really say how these will hold up to continuous lap after lap abuse.
Noise: Surprisingly little. I would actually say you could use these on the street as far as noise is concerned. This wasn't the case with the Carbotechs which squeal like crazy when cold and got me plenty of comments on how I need to fix my brakes (even from an instructor once).
Dust/Smell: These pads are absolutely noxious as far as smell. In fact, they produce far more odor than the Carbotechs after a session. So much so that I recommend standing a good distance from the car so that you're not smelling and breathing in the fine particulate dust. This is my biggest complaint as far as these pads go. They do produce a fair amount of dust on the wheels, but nothing you wouldn't expect from a set of track pads, meaning you probably won't want to use these too much on the street if you care about how pretty your wheels look.
Cold operation: The cold bite is not as good as the Carbotechs, but they work fine once warmed up at the track. I would be hesitant to use these on the street too much. Maybe just to drive to the track and back if you aren't into changing pads at the track.
Wear: I haven't taken the pads off to check yet. I'll get back to you on this later.
Thanks again to Andy for providing the pads for testing. I will be heading back to THill in early January for a 2 day event and will follow up with additional feedback.
*********UPDATE*********
I went to a 2 day driver safety event at Thunderhill with the Audi Club on Jan 10-11. Same setup. Kumho SPT street tires, stock power, stock suspension, ATE Super Blue fluid, no aftermarket brake ducts.
The car went through some slalom, threshold braking, and lane change exercises on the morning of the 10th. In the afternoon, it went for 2 sessions in the beginner A group, and 2 sessions in the instructor X group.
On the 11th, the car went for 1 session in the beginner A group, 3 sessions in the intermediate D group, and 2 sessions in the instructor X group.
All sessions were 30 minutes long, except for one during the A group and one during the X group in which the sessions had to be cut short to 20 minutes due to low fuel.
The odor I mentioned previously persisted through the first day, but was not noticeable on the second day.
My instructor noted that he felt fade after about 20 minutes of hard driving.
We managed to wear the pads down to the backing plates on the second day. Since we didn't want to hot change the pads, we decided to skip the last session of the day in the X group.
I have attached pictures of the pads.
Front left. Just a minor note, the outer plates fell off immediately after I slid the caliper off the pads.
Front right. Same as front left. The outer plates fell off immediately upon removal.
Rear left. Still a small amount of material left.
Rear right. Same as rear left. A small amount of material left. You can tell the paint blistered from the heat.
Overall, these pads survived 3 days, of which I would say 30% of the time, the car was probably caught up behind quite a bit of slower traffic in the beginner groups. I would estimate that in an intermediate group with my setup now, I would probably get about 2 days worth of driving from a new set. I would say that these pads are a satisfactory choice for beginners and intermediates who want an affordable brake pad, running street tires. I cannot comment on how these would last if you had R compounds. Thanks again to Andy for providing these pads for testing.
After some time contemplating the capabilities of these pads, I would say that they are a great pad for the price. The folks who will find these pads most useful are those who may be looking to become introduced to HPDEs, but are not yet going all out in higher intermediate or advanced groups. These are the folks who would like to slap the pads on at home, drive around on the street for a bit with no noise, are willing to deal with a little bit of brake dust (I do not believe it is excessive), and drive to the track. Assuming decent brake fluid, these pads will hold up just fine for such a driver.
Last edited by DarkMastyr; 03-19-2009 at 05:04 PM. Reason: Update
12-02-2008, 10:35 PM
#2
Burning Brakes
A quick note on the smell: running Hawk HT-10 pads on the front of my 3500lb Mustang produced a wicked bad smell. Then I installed Quantum cooling ducts and....smell went away, like magic.
Nice write-up, thanks.
Nice write-up, thanks.
12-03-2008, 03:41 AM
#3
I got these pads from Andy @ EBC a while back and got a chance to test them at Thunderhill yesterday. They were bedded in the day before.
A few things to note:
I did not change rotors. These are the stock Z51 rotors that have seen light street use with the stock Z51 pads, followed by track use with Carbotech XP10/XP8, and then switched out for AC Delco ceramics for light street use before seeing the EBC Yellows.
I am on street tires. Kumho SPT 245/40/18 and 285/35/19 stock C6 sizes.
I ran in the novice group (Limited/Instruction), with times of ~2:18 or so when not held up in traffic.
I am running Super Blue ATE fluid. No SS lines or spindle ducts (next on my list of things to get).
Results:
Fade: None that I could notice for how much I was pushing the car, but I also had plenty of cool down time once I caught up with traffic, so I can't really say how these will hold up to continuous lap after lap abuse.
Noise: Surprisingly little. I would actually say you could use these on the street as far as noise is concerned. This wasn't the case with the Carbotechs which squeal like crazy when cold and got me plenty of comments on how I need to fix my brakes (even from an instructor once).
Dust/Smell: These pads are absolutely noxious as far as smell. In fact, they produce far more odor than the Carbotechs after a session. So much so that I recommend standing a good distance from the car so that you're not smelling and breathing in the fine particulate dust. This is my biggest complaint as far as these pads go. They do produce a fair amount of dust on the wheels, but nothing you wouldn't expect from a set of track pads, meaning you probably won't want to use these too much on the street if you care about how pretty your wheels look.
Cold operation: The cold bite is not as good as the Carbotechs, but they work fine once warmed up at the track. I would be hesitant to use these on the street too much. Maybe just to drive to the track and back if you aren't into changing pads at the track.
Wear: I haven't taken the pads off to check yet. I'll get back to you on this later.
Thanks again to Andy for providing the pads for testing. I will be heading back to THill in early January for a 2 day event and will follow up with additional feedback.
A few things to note:
I did not change rotors. These are the stock Z51 rotors that have seen light street use with the stock Z51 pads, followed by track use with Carbotech XP10/XP8, and then switched out for AC Delco ceramics for light street use before seeing the EBC Yellows.
I am on street tires. Kumho SPT 245/40/18 and 285/35/19 stock C6 sizes.
I ran in the novice group (Limited/Instruction), with times of ~2:18 or so when not held up in traffic.
I am running Super Blue ATE fluid. No SS lines or spindle ducts (next on my list of things to get).
Results:
Fade: None that I could notice for how much I was pushing the car, but I also had plenty of cool down time once I caught up with traffic, so I can't really say how these will hold up to continuous lap after lap abuse.
Noise: Surprisingly little. I would actually say you could use these on the street as far as noise is concerned. This wasn't the case with the Carbotechs which squeal like crazy when cold and got me plenty of comments on how I need to fix my brakes (even from an instructor once).
Dust/Smell: These pads are absolutely noxious as far as smell. In fact, they produce far more odor than the Carbotechs after a session. So much so that I recommend standing a good distance from the car so that you're not smelling and breathing in the fine particulate dust. This is my biggest complaint as far as these pads go. They do produce a fair amount of dust on the wheels, but nothing you wouldn't expect from a set of track pads, meaning you probably won't want to use these too much on the street if you care about how pretty your wheels look.
Cold operation: The cold bite is not as good as the Carbotechs, but they work fine once warmed up at the track. I would be hesitant to use these on the street too much. Maybe just to drive to the track and back if you aren't into changing pads at the track.
Wear: I haven't taken the pads off to check yet. I'll get back to you on this later.
Thanks again to Andy for providing the pads for testing. I will be heading back to THill in early January for a 2 day event and will follow up with additional feedback.
Thanks Dark for your honest comments, in early race use when you really get the temperature up there, the first 3-5 heat cycles you will smell these resins, the pads are designed 3/4 cured and resins settle. When bedding in pads on the street I can see smoke a couple of times in early use,then it goes away. This can also cause a light (what we call GREEN ) fade that again is gone after 3-5 heat cycles.Again just the resins burning off the surface.
There will be an odour but certainly no unsafe dust, not that any dust is good but we have no lead, no ceramic fibres,no lead,certainly no asbestos and no sulphides so there is nothing that will cause harm.
Youre pads are just about right to go now and will be better after this heat cycling.
As far as your comments about no grip from cold, again a couple of heat cycles will cure this. I drive these daily and in the UK there is frost on my screen every morning recently yet the brakes feel fine. In Europe these pads are all ECE R 90 approved and you cannot get this approval if they dont work from cold,they have to be AT LEAST as good as the OEM pads. So just a bedding issue I feel and even on new rotors there is always a slight off parallel to work through that takes 150-200 miles street or 3-5 laps track break in. Also I dont know if your set had the break in red surface coating on or not, this is on 95% of our yellows now but we do make a few sets without as some racers dont like to wait till this wears off. It is gone in a couple of laps and we put it there to remove glaze and tar like marks on the rotor and ALSO to remove carbon deposit layers that come from carbon inclusive pads. So if you had the red surface coating, that was a lot of the reason for your dust in early use.
If anyone wants a LOW DUST pad we are just about to launch our new Redstuff pads in a new material that gets rid of dust 90%, these are a FAST STREET pad and NOT a track pad.
Going on with race use Yellow DM 1793 is still the way to go for track, they are not the hardest blocks of granite out there but most people are OK with their life. We do have a blue grade for more life but its a trade off and the bite you enjoy with yellow is not quite there, especially at low speed. Blues do have a low speed cold brake issue and thats why we really control issue of these and dont advise them on the street.
Look forward to hearing from you again in the spring, have a good one
12-03-2008, 07:35 AM
#4
Team Owner
Good info.
12-03-2008, 12:04 PM
#5
Le Mans Master
I'll add my comments as I got to try mine out in the C4 last weekend. I'll update after this weekend at Road Atlanta. Like the OP I used the same rotors, I did clean them with brake cleaner and some steel wool before putting on the EBC pads. I have no cooling ducts on the C4.
Last weekend I was at Roebling Road for one lap time trials. It was cold and rainy a lot of the time. Was dry most of the day Saturday.
First test run on Friday, what a pucker factor. I'm used to the XP10's biting and waited way too long to hit the cold EBC pads, thought I would never get slow enough to make turn 1. Later ran another test lap in the rain, wasn't going as fast and braked earlier and they worked OK.
Saturday after looping it out of turn 2 my first run I ran the other 5 time trials with no issues. Just had to start braking at the begining of the markers before turn 1 to get down from 125 ish to 60 ish (street tires btw). The other brake zones on the track are very short for me and they worked like the xp10's for those braking zones.
Sunday was cold and rainy, only ran 2 time trials and wasn't going fast enough to test them.
Road Atlanta is this weekend for an HPDE (20 min sessions) so we will see how well they work with some heat in them. Looking forward to it, I even have some old V710's I'm going to put on her so I'll have race pads and tires to try.
Last weekend I was at Roebling Road for one lap time trials. It was cold and rainy a lot of the time. Was dry most of the day Saturday.
First test run on Friday, what a pucker factor. I'm used to the XP10's biting and waited way too long to hit the cold EBC pads, thought I would never get slow enough to make turn 1. Later ran another test lap in the rain, wasn't going as fast and braked earlier and they worked OK.
Saturday after looping it out of turn 2 my first run I ran the other 5 time trials with no issues. Just had to start braking at the begining of the markers before turn 1 to get down from 125 ish to 60 ish (street tires btw). The other brake zones on the track are very short for me and they worked like the xp10's for those braking zones.
Sunday was cold and rainy, only ran 2 time trials and wasn't going fast enough to test them.
Road Atlanta is this weekend for an HPDE (20 min sessions) so we will see how well they work with some heat in them. Looking forward to it, I even have some old V710's I'm going to put on her so I'll have race pads and tires to try.
12-04-2008, 04:00 AM
#6
I'll add my comments as I got to try mine out in the C4 last weekend. I'll update after this weekend at Road Atlanta. Like the OP I used the same rotors, I did clean them with brake cleaner and some steel wool before putting on the EBC pads. I have no cooling ducts on the C4.
Last weekend I was at Roebling Road for one lap time trials. It was cold and rainy a lot of the time. Was dry most of the day Saturday.
First test run on Friday, what a pucker factor. I'm used to the XP10's biting and waited way too long to hit the cold EBC pads, thought I would never get slow enough to make turn 1. Later ran another test lap in the rain, wasn't going as fast and braked earlier and they worked OK.
Saturday after looping it out of turn 2 my first run I ran the other 5 time trials with no issues. Just had to start braking at the begining of the markers before turn 1 to get down from 125 ish to 60 ish (street tires btw). The other brake zones on the track are very short for me and they worked like the xp10's for those braking zones.
Sunday was cold and rainy, only ran 2 time trials and wasn't going fast enough to test them.
Road Atlanta is this weekend for an HPDE (20 min sessions) so we will see how well they work with some heat in them. Looking forward to it, I even have some old V710's I'm going to put on her so I'll have race pads and tires to try.
Last weekend I was at Roebling Road for one lap time trials. It was cold and rainy a lot of the time. Was dry most of the day Saturday.
First test run on Friday, what a pucker factor. I'm used to the XP10's biting and waited way too long to hit the cold EBC pads, thought I would never get slow enough to make turn 1. Later ran another test lap in the rain, wasn't going as fast and braked earlier and they worked OK.
Saturday after looping it out of turn 2 my first run I ran the other 5 time trials with no issues. Just had to start braking at the begining of the markers before turn 1 to get down from 125 ish to 60 ish (street tires btw). The other brake zones on the track are very short for me and they worked like the xp10's for those braking zones.
Sunday was cold and rainy, only ran 2 time trials and wasn't going fast enough to test them.
Road Atlanta is this weekend for an HPDE (20 min sessions) so we will see how well they work with some heat in them. Looking forward to it, I even have some old V710's I'm going to put on her so I'll have race pads and tires to try.
One comment just made was about prepping the rotors, it is always good if you have time to scratch pad the rotors and then clean with a brake cleaner . Object is to scuff the surface lightly, dont use abrasive papers as those marks might take 10-20 laps to rub away. Dont forget though EBC pads all have this red abrasive coating on the surface called Brake-In which contains an abrasive particle in a plasticised baked on coating that cleans off all those nasty tar spots.
The brake in coating generates a bit more dust as it wears off and bites well but you must get this coating worn off before racing so if your pads are the latest ones with this red coating (its says BRAKE IN COATING RIGHT THERE INK JETTED ON THE FRICTION SURFACE) allow 2-3 laps for the pads to cut through the coating and real friction material to start getting hold of the rotor. Your braking will be all over the place if you start a race without getting through the coating,thats why I am seeing some people say they cannot fix their braking markers early after fitment.
Thanks guys
01-18-2009, 06:44 AM
#8
Thanks again to all, pleased that Dark Mastyr can say these are OK pads for a beginner or intermediate after he frazzled them, we did say these are NOT a long lasting hard pad, we do have such pads and I have recently sent sets of a new material to one driver and will send some to you Dark for you to evaluate on the fronts which is where the wear of course hits home most. These will be the new EBC Orange Grade and our Blue Grade, maybe you will get to try these in the spring.
One conclusion I am hoping we have made so far is for the price Yellowstuff 1793 formula are an OK race pad but with limited lifetime, is that fair ????
regards to all
Andy
One conclusion I am hoping we have made so far is for the price Yellowstuff 1793 formula are an OK race pad but with limited lifetime, is that fair ????
regards to all
Andy
01-18-2009, 01:36 PM
#9
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Yes I believe that to be a fair statement. The pads certainly required a beating before fade started to set in, and considering the price, I think they are quite satisfactory for many people.
