Sparks flyin...on Brake Bedding
11-10-2008, 08:34 PM
#1
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Sparks flyin...on Brake Bedding
A few weeks ago I was headed down to NJMP for a day with Track Time 4 Cars. I typically drive my Z06 while a good friend takes my "track stuff" in his truck.
A few days before I had put a new set of Hawk HP+ pads on but had not bedded them yet. These were the 3rd set of the season.
There is a 30 mile stretch of highway pretty much in the middle of nowhere that stretches from the NJ Turnpike to the track, and I was travelling close to midnight on a Sunday. No traffic anywhere in sight and I decided within the last few miles of my trek I would bed the brakes, then almost immediately park the car in the hotel parking lot and let them cool overnight.
Three or so stops from 40 to 5mph. Good. Still no traffic anywhere close.
Three stops from 85 to 5 mph. Still good, brakes grabbing nicely. No traffic, still safe.
Now up to 115mph and slam on the brakes. To my surprise, the two front wheels start shooting sparks up and over my hood, like one of those sparking pin wheel toy thingies! Easy enough to see in the pitch black on a semi-deserted highway, but I still couldn't beleive it.
So I tried it again just to make sure I wasn't seeing things.
115mph, slam on the brakes....sparks start flying again! Holy S!
Luckily at this point I'm only a mile or so from the hotel so once I get there I take a look and nothing looks out of place or abnormal. The next day I used the brakes quite aggressively on the track and without any issues for numerous sessions. I even drove home the next night without issue.
Has anyone else had the same experience or knows if this is normal?
PS the only other factor is that I applied the anti-squeal lubricant on the back of the pads that was provided by Hawk, very similar to what GM used to fix the normal Z51 squealing.
A few days before I had put a new set of Hawk HP+ pads on but had not bedded them yet. These were the 3rd set of the season.
There is a 30 mile stretch of highway pretty much in the middle of nowhere that stretches from the NJ Turnpike to the track, and I was travelling close to midnight on a Sunday. No traffic anywhere in sight and I decided within the last few miles of my trek I would bed the brakes, then almost immediately park the car in the hotel parking lot and let them cool overnight.
Three or so stops from 40 to 5mph. Good. Still no traffic anywhere close.
Three stops from 85 to 5 mph. Still good, brakes grabbing nicely. No traffic, still safe.
Now up to 115mph and slam on the brakes. To my surprise, the two front wheels start shooting sparks up and over my hood, like one of those sparking pin wheel toy thingies! Easy enough to see in the pitch black on a semi-deserted highway, but I still couldn't beleive it.
So I tried it again just to make sure I wasn't seeing things.
115mph, slam on the brakes....sparks start flying again! Holy S!
Luckily at this point I'm only a mile or so from the hotel so once I get there I take a look and nothing looks out of place or abnormal. The next day I used the brakes quite aggressively on the track and without any issues for numerous sessions. I even drove home the next night without issue.
Has anyone else had the same experience or knows if this is normal?
PS the only other factor is that I applied the anti-squeal lubricant on the back of the pads that was provided by Hawk, very similar to what GM used to fix the normal Z51 squealing.
11-10-2008, 08:46 PM
#2
Race Director
Slotted and/or drilled rotors?
Now up to 115mph and slam on the brakes.
I don't think I've come across this method of bedding in new pads on any of the ones I've used. I think you overdid it slightly, but probably no harm done except maybe scaring some of the night critters.
Now up to 115mph and slam on the brakes.
I don't think I've come across this method of bedding in new pads on any of the ones I've used. I think you overdid it slightly, but probably no harm done except maybe scaring some of the night critters.
Last edited by froggy47; 11-10-2008 at 08:51 PM.
11-10-2008, 08:56 PM
#3
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Slotted and/or drilled rotors?
Now up to 115mph and slam on the brakes.
I don't think I've come across this method of bedding in new pads on any of the ones I've used. I think you overdid it slightly, but probably no harm done except maybe scaring some of the night critters.
Now up to 115mph and slam on the brakes.
I don't think I've come across this method of bedding in new pads on any of the ones I've used. I think you overdid it slightly, but probably no harm done except maybe scaring some of the night critters.
Here is the instruction from Hawk...considering I didn't want to go 140mph on public roads 115mph was the closest I came to "at or near racing speeds".
Q: What is the proper procedure for braking in new brake pads?
A: Brake pad break-in procedure.
After reaching medium speed engage brake pedal to slow car without coming to a complete stop. Release pedal quickly and do not drag brakes. Repeat four or five times.
At higher speeds engage brake pedal to slow car without coming to a complete stop. Release pedal quickly and do not drag brakes. Repeat five times.
At or near race speed engage brake pedal to slow car without coming to a complete stop. Release pedal quickly and do not drag brakes. Repeat three times. Allow a few seconds between brake engagements while car is in motion.
Do not hold brake pedal.
Park car for approximately 20 minutes or until brake rotors are completely cool to the touch.
If during the above steps the brake pedal becomes soft or brake fade is noticed, park the car immediately for approximately 20 minutes. Do not hold brake pedal.
11-10-2008, 11:39 PM
#4
Melting Slicks
I had the same thing happen to me with Hawk Blue's when I bedded them in(as best I could on the street.) I thought I must of F---ed something up on the brake job, but after I took everything apart, it was normal. I took it to Thunderhill a couple of days later and had almost three hours of track time, absolutely no problems and no sparks!
I pulled this off the internet for Hawks FWIW:
Hawk Brake Bedding-in Procedure:
Step 1:Make 6-10 slow-downs from approximately 30-35 mph to 5 mph. applying moderate pressure. Do not come to a complete stop.
Step 2:Make an additional 2 to 3 harder stops from approximately 40-45 mph. to zero.
Step 3
O NOT DRAG THE BRAKES! (after stopping - do not leave your foot on the brake pedal)
Step 4:Allow 15 mintutes or more for the brake system to cool down.
Step 5:Your new Hawk pads are ready for use.
I pulled this off the internet for Hawks FWIW:
Hawk Brake Bedding-in Procedure:
Step 1:Make 6-10 slow-downs from approximately 30-35 mph to 5 mph. applying moderate pressure. Do not come to a complete stop.
Step 2:Make an additional 2 to 3 harder stops from approximately 40-45 mph. to zero.
Step 3
O NOT DRAG THE BRAKES! (after stopping - do not leave your foot on the brake pedal) Step 4:Allow 15 mintutes or more for the brake system to cool down.
Step 5:Your new Hawk pads are ready for use.
Last edited by Sidney004; 11-10-2008 at 11:47 PM.
11-11-2008, 01:02 AM
#5
Le Mans Master
I believe hawk consistently ships the bedding instructions for their blues/blacks with the HP+s. You bed the HP+s like the post above says, the race pads get more aggressive bedding.
11-11-2008, 07:12 AM
#6
Team Owner
Member Since: Sep 2003
Location: Raleigh / Rolesville NC
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Bedding
New brake pads on old rotors OR Old brake pads on New rotors.
Fresh brake fluid
( some times I put duct tape over the brake duct openings on the nose to get more heart into the rotors )
short drive
5 40 to 5 mph stops, easy to get some heat into the pads and rotors
5 40 to 5 mph stops, HARD, no ***** footed brakeing. GET ON that peddle to activate ABS
5 80 to 5 mph stops, all one right after another also get on this hard
then
3 to 5 100 to 10 mph stops, again hard, all one right after an other
Drive 20 min to cool the brakes, at a stop sign I will get out and take the duct tape off the brake duct holes, drive another 10 15 min and put car back into garage for 24 hours.
Jack car up bleed brakes with fresh brake fluid, put on track wheels load into trailer
Hawk HP+ are good pads but not race pads, not quite made for consistant 80+ Mph stops.
Blues, Blacks DTC-70s and DTC-60s are Hawks race pads made for consistent hard stopping.
I use Wilwood H or PFC-01s
My guess those sparks or what ever were from some road clagg that got stuck in one of the holes in the rotor or some road clagg that was stuck between the brake pad and the rotor. It happens
When the D / S rotors where out get some solid faced rotors. the slots and holes will scrap the brake pad to take any debris or glazing off the brake pad
New brake pads on old rotors OR Old brake pads on New rotors.
Fresh brake fluid
( some times I put duct tape over the brake duct openings on the nose to get more heart into the rotors )
short drive
5 40 to 5 mph stops, easy to get some heat into the pads and rotors
5 40 to 5 mph stops, HARD, no ***** footed brakeing. GET ON that peddle to activate ABS
5 80 to 5 mph stops, all one right after another also get on this hard
then
3 to 5 100 to 10 mph stops, again hard, all one right after an other
Drive 20 min to cool the brakes, at a stop sign I will get out and take the duct tape off the brake duct holes, drive another 10 15 min and put car back into garage for 24 hours.
Jack car up bleed brakes with fresh brake fluid, put on track wheels load into trailer
Hawk HP+ are good pads but not race pads, not quite made for consistant 80+ Mph stops.
Blues, Blacks DTC-70s and DTC-60s are Hawks race pads made for consistent hard stopping.
I use Wilwood H or PFC-01s
My guess those sparks or what ever were from some road clagg that got stuck in one of the holes in the rotor or some road clagg that was stuck between the brake pad and the rotor. It happens
When the D / S rotors where out get some solid faced rotors. the slots and holes will scrap the brake pad to take any debris or glazing off the brake pad
Last edited by AU N EGL; 11-11-2008 at 07:14 AM.
11-11-2008, 08:26 AM
#8
Team Owner
Member Since: Jul 2004
Location: NJ
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St. Jude Donor '05-'08
I was just talking about the bedding process with someone and this is what he suggested for a race pad:
any thoughts on this?
With a race pad you want to push it until you experience some fade. The best way to accomplish that is to lower the speed so that there is less cooling time between deceleration, and go thru more cycles. Once you have begun to experience fade, you want to drive the car cool at mid range speeds while applying the brakes as little as possible.
any thoughts on this?
11-11-2008, 09:49 AM
#9
Melting Slicks
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Unfortunately all brake pads don't bed in the same, so what works for pad A may not work as well for pad b.
What you are looking for when bedding is a uniform transfer layer. If you see that there are spots on the rotor that don't look the same as the rest of the rotor then your not finished yet.
I do have a system that I perfer to use which is:
10 light stops from 35 to 20
10 medium stops from 45 to 20
10 to 20 hard as hell stops from 70 to 20
Then drive the car for 10 to 15 minutes to cool
Some pads require more of the hard stops than others, but the only way to know if your done is by "reading" the rotors.
StopTech's website has more info on bedding than anyone that I have seen. So if you are really interested here is the link.
http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp...contents.shtml
But to answer the original posters question, yes I have had that happen before, it's nothing to worry about as long as the sparks are from dicarded pad material, obviously you want to be sure your not burning brake fluid due to a leak of some kind etc. But that is just another reason to look over the brake system after bedding in.
What you are looking for when bedding is a uniform transfer layer. If you see that there are spots on the rotor that don't look the same as the rest of the rotor then your not finished yet.
I do have a system that I perfer to use which is:
10 light stops from 35 to 20
10 medium stops from 45 to 20
10 to 20 hard as hell stops from 70 to 20
Then drive the car for 10 to 15 minutes to cool
Some pads require more of the hard stops than others, but the only way to know if your done is by "reading" the rotors.
StopTech's website has more info on bedding than anyone that I have seen. So if you are really interested here is the link.
http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp...contents.shtml
But to answer the original posters question, yes I have had that happen before, it's nothing to worry about as long as the sparks are from dicarded pad material, obviously you want to be sure your not burning brake fluid due to a leak of some kind etc. But that is just another reason to look over the brake system after bedding in.
11-11-2008, 08:08 PM
#12
I have seen this several times. It's really fun to get some one in the car that has not seen it before and tell them to keep an eye on the fender.
Is usually the reaction I get
Is usually the reaction I get
11-12-2008, 07:44 PM
#13
Former Vendor
With a race pad you want to push it until you experience some fade.
I'll take exception to that statement and say this is totally not necessary for most race pads. In fact such immediate heat shock to the rotors could prove damaging. Some pad won't "fade" until upwards of 1500f or more. There is no reason for this to be used to bed pads- race or otherwise. I've install new pads at the track from the start of the weekend to mid day to the warm up laps before the green. It's not that difficult or time consuming.
I'll agree with much of the more common sense approaches outlined above with one note; it's often stated "let the brakes cool" and to many that means parking the car without holding the brake on. Bad idea. Let them cool is better described as continue driving the car with little or no brake application for about 10min to allow the pads and rotor to cool down before parking the car. Parking (without foot) post 20min of hard on/off use is a recipe for hot spots.
I'll take exception to that statement and say this is totally not necessary for most race pads. In fact such immediate heat shock to the rotors could prove damaging. Some pad won't "fade" until upwards of 1500f or more. There is no reason for this to be used to bed pads- race or otherwise. I've install new pads at the track from the start of the weekend to mid day to the warm up laps before the green. It's not that difficult or time consuming.
I'll agree with much of the more common sense approaches outlined above with one note; it's often stated "let the brakes cool" and to many that means parking the car without holding the brake on. Bad idea. Let them cool is better described as continue driving the car with little or no brake application for about 10min to allow the pads and rotor to cool down before parking the car. Parking (without foot) post 20min of hard on/off use is a recipe for hot spots.
11-13-2008, 08:43 AM
#19
