AU N EGL

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...cing_Oils.aspx

Mobil 1 Racing oils are designed to maximize performance on the track. Available in 0W-20 and 0W-30 viscosities, these oils are engineered to deliver outstanding power output while providing boosted levels of anti-wear to protect in a wide range of racing engine applications, including highly loaded flat tappet designs.


0-w20 for qualifying

0-w30 for racing

SouthernSon

Probably will kill the cats with all that zinc. But, considering the only Mobil 1 for street use with any appreciable amount of zinc left in it is the 15-50, I suppose one might add 'jes a leedle' from the new racing formula to get good protection at the track.

CHJ In Virginia

Standard M1 oils pulled most of the Zinc and other max wear additives out some time back due to EPA regulations. They are still good , but this blend will be a bunch better for the track. If you have a tight strong engine, how are they going to cause problems with the cats ??

sperkins

Isn't it actually the phosphorus in the "zinc" that harms the emissions system?

Also, which is better:
1. Low viscosity oil that circulates with less pressure but more volume?
OR
2. High viscosity oil that circulates with more pressure but less volume?

AU N EGL

in the FAQ

"I've been using Mobil 1 15W-50 in my race car. How are these new oils better/different?
Mobil 1 15W-50 is a higher viscosity oil that delivers a thick oil film for protection of high performance engines. While Mobil 1 15W-50 can be used and is recommended for both street and track use, the new Mobil 1 Racing oils are only recommended for use in race engines at the track. Mobil 1 Racing 0W-30 and 0W-20 are lower viscosity oils designed to increase power output versus higher viscosity oils. Most importantly, Mobil 1 Racing oils are formulated with anti-wear (Zinc/Phosphorus) chemistries at twice the level of automotive street oils to protect race engines including high loaded flat tappet designs used in the NASCAR series."

and

"You say the new Mobil 1 Racing oils are not for street use. Why is that? Does that mean I can't use these oils if my race car is also my daily driver?
Automotive street use oils that meet the latest industry standards are required to have a lower level of Zinc and Phosphorus anti-wear chemistries than oils formulated years ago. The latest automotive street use engine oils are designed to be compatible with emission control equipment. Mobil 1 Racing oils are formulated with anti-wear (Zinc/Phosphorus) chemistries at twice the level of automotive street oils to provide enhanced protection of highly loaded valve train systems found in some race engines. Based on the high level of anti-wear chemistries, Mobil 1 Racing oils are not recommended for street use."

FasterIsBetter

Reading the entire M1 faq, it certainly sounds like these oils are ONLY for use in actual racing engines, not in our street engines when we are doing HPDE. It sounds more like they are recommending using the 15W-50 for street cars that are running on the track.

Does anyone have any further info on this? It also sounds like these oils won't even be available until next spring 2009.

mrruffhouser

If you do a search on this forum for "oil for flat tappet engines", you will find over 251 threads. Many have great information, results of lab tests from a variety of users. If you visit other forums you will also find a lot of good information on the oils that have the amount of zinc and phosphous necessary to protect flat tappet engines. If you have a roller cam engine, you have no problem with today's oils.
With so much information, you will also find those that have used a specific brand of oil for 20-25 years with success. However those oil formulations changed due to enviromental law and the necessay levels of zinc and phosphous was removed.
The only oils that will protect your flat tappet engine now are racing and off-road oils. Most of these oils will state on the container that thet have the necessary levels of zinc and phosphous to protect a flat tappet engine. Do not use an oil the has the "sunburst" logo on it, as these oils will not protect your flat tappet engine.

Lancer033

okay - i'll expose my engine ignorance - what's a "flat tappet engine"

RaleighSS

Its the old school non roller lifters... had a flat bottom that rested on the cam lobes .... today most motors have a roller tip that rest on the cam

thehammer69

What I have noticed lately is a lot of posts with people saying we don't NEED the extra ZDDP that is required with flat tappet cams. That is true, it isn't NEEDED. Engines are not going to immediately grind themselves away with the lower ZDDP content. However, what is obviously misunderstood is that ZDDP is considered one of the best barrier protection additives that can be added to oil; and if you come into a situation such as a slight oil starvation issue to a lubricated part; high ZDDP oil can potentially save your engine where other barrier additives won't. Even if you aren't experiencing oil starvation, a higher ZDDP content can lower overall wear over the long term.

RaleighSS

What about adding this to the oil????

http://www.zddplus.com/

thehammer69

It can be used...but a fully formulated racing oil probably will be a better choice because the chemistry ratios of the various additives are designed to work together and are probably tested to ensure this.

Another choice would be to use HDEO's aka Heavy Duty Engine oils. These are oils that were designed for Heavy duty diesels but also carry a gas motor rating. I ran Rotella Synthetic 5w-40 in my car the one time I took it to Roebling.

kelp

That was my guess too. I couldn't find any information. What else is different besides Zn?

RaleighSS

Not to HiJack the Mobil 1 thread.... but this is what I found on Valvoline

http://www.valvoline.com/downloads/2008-003a.pdf

WHT

For cars that are used on the street and limited competition (with cats, subject to clean air inspection):

As most of you know, Zinc Dialkyl Dithio Phosphate is consumed with metal-to-metal contact in an engine when it forms a hard, protective layer at the area of contact.

Mobil was already pulling zinc (ZDDP) out of their additive package before the tighter EPA regulations (phosphorus levels were more important than zinc levels as was mentioned previously). High M1 film strengths meant there was very little metal-to-metal contact in modern engines under normal operating conditions. ZDDP is only "consumed" when there is metal-to-metal contact and it was not needed at higher levels with the latest additive packages. And, adding more ZDDP did not provide more protection in a healthy engine during normal drain intervals.

Removing ZDDP helped M1 reduce combustion deposits and kept engines cleaner. It also reduced some forms of engine corrosion.

If you are worried about ZDDP levels in a higher stress application (racing or in engines with higher cam and spring loads), simply change your oil more frequently. Oil is inexpensive (considering the cost of racing) and changing it more frequently under high load conditions ensures there is a sufficient level of ZDDP to protect the engine and it won't damage your cats.

C66 Racing

Interesting. Wonder if that move was in response to the three new AMSOIL racing oils:
AMSOIL Dominator 5w20 Racing Oil
AMSOIL Dominator 10w30 Racing Oil
AMSOIL Dominator 15w50 Racing Oil

Either way, good to finally have some more high ZDDP options available for track use.

Sidney004

There may be a threshold concentration level where ZDDP provides adequate protection against metal to metal contact.

The real issue is the flat tappet cam, which the vast majority of us on this forum don't have to deal with. The posting about the benefit of using high concentration ZDDP oils in situations where we could experience oil starvation(high G track driving) is very interesting; I have never read that before but it makes sense. FWIW, I have over a hundred track hours of usage on my V710 shod LT1, Gtech readings above 1.25. I have never had any problems and yes I have always used a high concentration ZDDP oil, Redline 10w-40. If anyone is interested, here are the UOA's:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...52#Post1306952

froggy47

RL 10w-40 ok for a car that is both street & autox driven?

SoCal.

Sidney004

I did replace my cats after 60K after it failed smog. I think you can use RL 10w-40, but it will compromise the life of your cats. I believe the other RL formulations have already lowered their ZDDP and Moly levels.

AU N EGL

M1 racing oil is too expensive. $12 something a quart

Looks like it is Red Line or Amsoil racing oils.