Road Race Engine Preference 355 or Carb'd LS3
11-02-2008, 03:29 PM
#1
Drifting
Thread Starter
Road Race Engine Preference 355 or Carb'd LS3
What would be a better engine set-up for strictly a road-race car;
A ZZ-4 355 track engine
or
A carbureted LS3 with Edelbrock manifold and MSD controller box
(Please give reasons!!!)
*Need to know the "safe" operating RPMs for each motor?
*Need to know if the stock LS3 oil pan is safe to use for track use?
*How effective/worthwhile is a dry sump system?
Thanks!!!
A ZZ-4 355 track engine
or
A carbureted LS3 with Edelbrock manifold and MSD controller box
(Please give reasons!!!)
*Need to know the "safe" operating RPMs for each motor?
*Need to know if the stock LS3 oil pan is safe to use for track use?
*How effective/worthwhile is a dry sump system?
Thanks!!!
11-02-2008, 05:45 PM
#2
Drifting
In 2007 and 2008 we road raced a GTA type stock car with a SCHWANKE RACING ENGINES carbureted LS1 (650 Holley) with the MSD 6LS controller. The car was a race winner, the motor dyno'd at 495 HP and 434 lbs ft torque. The motor was bullet proof right up until the time it swallowed a screw out of the carb.
This car ran right at 180 mph at Daytona, and cut a 2:15.8 lap at Sebring 12 hr course.
The ZZ4 would not perform anywhere near the range of an LS1, LS2,LS3, or LS6 version of the above.
Schwanke has some excellent short and long block versions at reasonable prices.
We shifted the LS1 at 6800, it had eagle rods and Mahle pistons.
With stock rods and rod bolts, probably about 6500 to be safe.
Our ASA series type oiling system was excellent. It used the stock oil pump for pressure and a RAZOR pump for scavenge. The pan was by Moroso. Never had a problem with it.
Some of the T-1 racers could probably answer the question about wet sump LS3 pan. Might need an accusump for extra insurance.
This car ran right at 180 mph at Daytona, and cut a 2:15.8 lap at Sebring 12 hr course.
The ZZ4 would not perform anywhere near the range of an LS1, LS2,LS3, or LS6 version of the above.
Schwanke has some excellent short and long block versions at reasonable prices.
We shifted the LS1 at 6800, it had eagle rods and Mahle pistons.
With stock rods and rod bolts, probably about 6500 to be safe.
Our ASA series type oiling system was excellent. It used the stock oil pump for pressure and a RAZOR pump for scavenge. The pan was by Moroso. Never had a problem with it.
Some of the T-1 racers could probably answer the question about wet sump LS3 pan. Might need an accusump for extra insurance.
Last edited by bosco022; 11-02-2008 at 05:52 PM.
11-02-2008, 10:16 PM
#3
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Dec 2006
Location: Phoenix Arizona
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In 2007 and 2008 we road raced a GTA type stock car with a SCHWANKE RACING ENGINES carbureted LS1 (650 Holley) with the MSD 6LS controller. The car was a race winner, the motor dyno'd at 495 HP and 434 lbs ft torque. The motor was bullet proof right up until the time it swallowed a screw out of the carb.
This car ran right at 180 mph at Daytona, and cut a 2:15.8 lap at Sebring 12 hr course.
The ZZ4 would not perform anywhere near the range of an LS1, LS2,LS3, or LS6 version of the above.
Schwanke has some excellent short and long block versions at reasonable prices.
We shifted the LS1 at 6800, it had eagle rods and Mahle pistons.
With stock rods and rod bolts, probably about 6500 to be safe.
Our ASA series type oiling system was excellent. It used the stock oil pump for pressure and a RAZOR pump for scavenge. The pan was by Moroso. Never had a problem with it.
Some of the T-1 racers could probably answer the question about wet sump LS3 pan. Might need an accusump for extra insurance.
This car ran right at 180 mph at Daytona, and cut a 2:15.8 lap at Sebring 12 hr course.
The ZZ4 would not perform anywhere near the range of an LS1, LS2,LS3, or LS6 version of the above.
Schwanke has some excellent short and long block versions at reasonable prices.
We shifted the LS1 at 6800, it had eagle rods and Mahle pistons.
With stock rods and rod bolts, probably about 6500 to be safe.
Our ASA series type oiling system was excellent. It used the stock oil pump for pressure and a RAZOR pump for scavenge. The pan was by Moroso. Never had a problem with it.
Some of the T-1 racers could probably answer the question about wet sump LS3 pan. Might need an accusump for extra insurance.
fantastic write up! 
11-03-2008, 08:37 AM
#4
the ls3 would be better in all regards over a zz4. it makes more power, its lighter both in overall weight and rotating weight, it is sealed up better so less worries of oil leaks, less frictional losses and it's more compact. of course if your budget and rules allow a dry sump would be best for either engine.
11-04-2008, 06:56 AM
#6
Drifting
NO....THAT IS NOT THE PAN.
The pan I use is the one that Moroso made for the ASA/Delco Series, it is not as deep. The system is kinda half and half, dry sump and stock pressure. They probably had a short production run of those, but could probably still make you one. A.R.E. makes a similar aluminum pan that I believe is even better for not much more money. It is pretty much a direct replacement for the ASA Moroso. They also make some nice full dry sump pans that have been used on the Daytona Prototypes and the like.
I may have a second moroso pan soon as am picking up another old ASA motor. Might be willing to sell it, to go to the shallower A.R.E.
I HIGHLY RECOMMEND THAT YOU CONSIDER AN LS MOTOR FOR YOU APPLICATION, EITHER CARB'D OR EFI.
I have been told by highly respected engine builders who have been instrumental in the development of these motors that they can be good for up to 3 to 4 times more laps than a conventional small block before needing freshening. It doesn't have to be LS3, take a look at the LS2 and LS6 variants by some of the engine builders who support this board, they have some very affordable options.
The pan I use is the one that Moroso made for the ASA/Delco Series, it is not as deep. The system is kinda half and half, dry sump and stock pressure. They probably had a short production run of those, but could probably still make you one. A.R.E. makes a similar aluminum pan that I believe is even better for not much more money. It is pretty much a direct replacement for the ASA Moroso. They also make some nice full dry sump pans that have been used on the Daytona Prototypes and the like.
I may have a second moroso pan soon as am picking up another old ASA motor. Might be willing to sell it, to go to the shallower A.R.E.
I HIGHLY RECOMMEND THAT YOU CONSIDER AN LS MOTOR FOR YOU APPLICATION, EITHER CARB'D OR EFI.
I have been told by highly respected engine builders who have been instrumental in the development of these motors that they can be good for up to 3 to 4 times more laps than a conventional small block before needing freshening. It doesn't have to be LS3, take a look at the LS2 and LS6 variants by some of the engine builders who support this board, they have some very affordable options.
Last edited by bosco022; 11-04-2008 at 07:04 AM.
11-04-2008, 09:55 AM
#8
Melting Slicks
Member Since: Sep 2003
Location: If you don't weigh in you don't wrestle Road America
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One very big advantage of an LS motor over a Gen I small block is the gaskets that are used in the LS motors. Almost all of the gaskets on the LS are reuseable and require almost no clean-up to re-install. The gaskets of the Gen I will require you to scrape and clean before you re-install your components.
When your talking about a race motor this is a very nice thing, you also get all of the other advantages listed above, more power, better reliablility and easier to work on. I guess the only downside is that an LS is a little more expensive initially but I think you will see that it will pay off in the long run. Personally I think the LS3 is worth the extra $$$ those heads are awesome.
When your talking about a race motor this is a very nice thing, you also get all of the other advantages listed above, more power, better reliablility and easier to work on. I guess the only downside is that an LS is a little more expensive initially but I think you will see that it will pay off in the long run. Personally I think the LS3 is worth the extra $$$ those heads are awesome.
