VettesRule

Why hasn't the C6 Z out performed the C5 z at the Solo Nats?

It does have better power, brakes and more grip for the same weight.

Is it just development time that the C5 Z has or are there just more C5's out there .

RUN4CVR

I would venture a guess that its because there are more C5's, they are a cheaper buy and some of the perishable parts are cheaper to get.

69autoXr

I think most would say that the biggest thing hurting the C6Z is the gearing; it's either at the top of first gear or too low in second (though the Elise guys have found a way around this: shifting!). The C6Z is also 3+ inches wider than a C5Z, which doesn't help in autocross.

Datawiz

The above is what I've heard as well.

Dave Lehman has the same opinion. I'm out to prove him wrong.

Solofast

If you can break the back end loose whenever you want to (assuming you aren't pointed dead straight) with a C5Z in second, is more grunt from the C6Z in first really going to make you that much faster?

I think that with more time and more development it may eventually prove to be faster, but there's a lot of "it depends" going on in there...

it depends on the available tires and the compound, can they put down the greater power??? Do they work on that surface??? Could be that on a really toothy surface they might be a lot faster as compared to a skating rink like Topeka..

it depends on the driver since with the higher engine braking that happens in first gear, will the C6 be more of a handful and upset more on corner entry???.. I've seen cases where you could do a course in first for most of the course, but if you did, it made it a lot harder to drive and even tho it seemed faster it wasn't necessarily so...

Right now the C5 has had a lot more development so it appears to be faster, but with the Porsche in the class a lot of people will vote with their feet and not bother to try. A C6Z is never going to put down power as well as a GT3, so you are going to behind them on the courses where you slow down a lot and can use the grunt to make time. The Elise is going to be faster on the skinny car courses or the constant speed ones... Not as many places where the car is a winner that have cones on them....

TedDBere

Ummmm....

1) Wrong gearing for autox
2) Taller
3) Heavier
4) Longer wheel base
5) Wider
6) Engine is farther forward
7) Rear bar too stiff
8) Front wheels too small for the rear wheels
9) Too much power (over 450 is a waste in autox)

Because of that, along with the price, top drivers are hard to find in the C6Z, but given the right driver, and the right course, it could be made competitive but most who try wander away to ASP where the wheels and rear bar can be changed to improve the balance.

Lanstra just showed up at a local event in his new '09 C6Z. We'll see how he does next year....

autoxn

I personally think that the C6 Z06 is better. I just can't afford one. Width is not a problem. My car is wider than the C6 Z. (At least with my 12.5" CCW's and 335 Hoosiers) Gearing isn't a problem if you know how to shift... If their's someone out there that would like a co driver this year, please let me know. I've got plenty of Hoosiers in the bank. I may be bringing one to the DC Pro this year. I've got a local buddy that I've autocrossed with for years that may let me bring his to DC. I will say that the one thing the car doesn't do as well is as the old car is rotate mid corner in 2nd gear, but that's what they make the shifter for.
Mike "Junior" Johnson
Evolution Performance Driving School
Looking for a C6 Z06 ride for next year, cause my car may get NASA ST 2 setup. Unless someone would like to buy it for $30,000.

Datawiz

One thing I like about the C6Z IS the taller gearing. Where I run, speeds are quite fast. I hear the C5Z's shifting to 3rd quite often. Shifting adds room for error. C6Z redlines in 2nd at 91 MPH. I find this quite useful.

If the track is short and tight, 1st gear will do with a 61 MPH limiter and a BUNCH of torque. You can steer it with the back end all you want.

I've just recently hit on something that has made me significantly faster...Front Grip bias by using new tires in the front and 1/2 life tires in the rear. It's tough to get the C6Z to turn. By having tires with less grip in the back, I find it MUCH easier to turn and and easier to steer with the throttle.

I'm going to run Dixie and then Nationals. I know I'm not yet the caliber of Gary Thomason, but I will do my best to give the C6Z a good showing.

Datawiz

You wanna run Dixie with me?

jimshepp1

I've now had Pat Salerno and Mark Daddio drive my c6z dead stock (except with PS2's) and they both commented that "everyone says you can't drive it in 1st," but they both disagreed after driving. It's pretty twitchy on stock tires in 1st, but with setup it could/should be faster. Just gotta get it set up right. Maybe next season...BTW Mike you can drive it too if you get up north and my wife lets me out. I should have tires/shocks/bar by spring

LehmanZ06

So, Mike----you going to run SS in DC ?

Or will you be running with Mr. Rodney McGeorges in his Yellar Car ?
-----------------------------------
Why do you think Ramey had so much trouble with his C6Z06 ?
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It would be interesting to see you run SS with a C6Z06.......but just scared that if you do, and it doesn't live up to your expectations....that when I come up and say hello to you.....that you might bite my head off.

David "itchy *****" Lehman

TedDBere

Thank god!! We'll finally get some good competition in SS!

Thing is Mike, you can win in a C6Z, but you can win by more in a C5Z....

autoxn

More than likely I'll be in SS in DC, but not in McGeorge's car. Or at least that's the plan. As for Ramey, I had talk to him some about the C6 Z, but I don't know why he gave up so fast. Chris has always seemed to run cars with a little different setup than most. Maybe he just gave up to fast. I really don't know. He and I also don't agree on the LT-4 Corvette. I still think that it's the best C4. Hell if Braun could win in a LT-1, why can't someone win in a car with more torque? Seems like a no brainer to me.
Mike "Junior" Johnson
Evolution Performance Driving School

Solofast

Mike,

The problem with the LT-4 cars isn't the engine, it is simply that they have 30% softer springs at both ends and a softer front bar. The bar you can fix, but the springs are the killer. With the front end being "camber challenged" you are going to see a lot more body roll and you will end up running outside edges off the front tires...

No grip, no glory...

autoxn

That why you buy a great set of Koni's. People said the same thing about the t-top non 1LE camaro. Nice try, but I still don't buy it. Although that cars day has come and gone.
Jr.

EvilBoffin

Junior & David -

I understand there is a steering angle sensor that is exclusive to the C6Z that can reactivate the TC and/or brakes if steering goes beyond 12-15 degrees, even with TC & AH turned off.

At least that's what Dave O'Maley told me after talking this over with Ramey. It's obviously something that can't be removed or overridden in SS, but probably can in ASP.

Is that correct from what you know? If it is, then it could be devastating for running competitively in SS...
.

Datawiz

I've run with both ALL OFF and Competition Mode (5-6 degrees of slip). I normally run in Comp Mode and have had it intervene 1 time this entire season. (about 25 days of racing). I've never experienced it when everything is off. With all off, If I screw up, I'm going around. The computer has never intervened.

autoxn

I've talked with Danny Popp about this same thing. (based off of hearing Ramey's claim) He says that it's the same as the C5Z. After driving Frank Gonzales's car at DC last year, and a couple of bone stock cars, it is my opinion that the car is easy to drive. I really don't see why the car can't be competitive with the C5, and flat out better in a Pro Solo.
Jr.

AU N EGL

Electronics is what I was going to say too

JiminVirginia

I have never exprienced this in my C6Z.

Also a comment on the width, weight, height issue: the differences between the C5Z and the C6Z are extremely small, if you do the research. Nothing decisive here.

One challenge that I have noticed: you don't see guys trailering tires to events with their C6Z, because it's hard to mount a hitch. I can't get a shop to touch this job for reasonable money. There are hundreds of guys with C5Z who do this all the time (I used to be one of them). Yes, you can trailer the whole C6Z with tires mounted, but the number of guys who can do this is limited. So there is a numbers game that has made a difference: hundreds of C5Zs, a more limited number of C6Zs.