rikhek

Pretty strong statement in the title but I stand by it....

Went to Hallett yesterday with a set of Carbotech XP10 on the front and XP8 on the rear.

The 10's were used and had about 70% of pad left. I got 112 track miles out of them and felt them going away. Pulled them and they were shot.

Put on another set of 10's with again about 70% and they were shot when my real problem arose after another 120 miles.

During my last session at the 230 mile mark I all but lost my brakes and moments later got a low brake fluid warning.

The rear pads were completely gone. The pads were brand new out of the box when I installed them the night before. They were to the point the brake piston became embedded and "welded" itself to the pad backing plate on the right side. Piston pushed out far enough that fluid was lost past it. Piston, caliper and rotor destroyed. The left side piston and rotor was also destroyed just had not yet gotten as bad as the right..

I can't believe I got less than 230 track miles out of a brand new set of rear pads.

I also understand I should have caught it prior to the damage being done and fully accept that. However, after 4 years and over 4,000 track miles I've never had a rear set of pads go this quickly. I never even thought to check them as they were new to start. I didn't feel or hear the metal to metal. I can't believe I didn't feel the "loss" of stopping ability. Again, I know I am responsible for monitoring my equipment and I have no excuse for not catching the problem.

Thankful I had spare calipers at home 55 miles away and the wife made the trip to bring them out to me so I could get the car home.

And yes, I DID bed them EXACTLY per the Carbotech procedure.

I've run pretty much all the pads out there. PFC, Hawks, etc. ALL these pads will last me at least three track days. I've run Carbotech about three years ago and didn't have this problem. That's why I had the left over used fronts in the garage. That's why I bought these new rears. Namely to use the fronts I still had.

This was just unacceptable and I'll never run them again. They are JUNK!!!

FWIW, my car is a C5 on Z06 suspension running R compound Nitto NT01's with 425 hp and 415 torque to the wheels. Nothing special as far a being a contributing factor.

Still really disappointed in myself and mad as hell at Carbotech.

Rick

gonzalezfj

I have had a similar experience. Never again will I use Carbotech.

Frank Gonzalez

rikhek

Frank,

I followed your comments in the last Carbotech thread and couldn't believe they'd be as bad as you described. I thought your driving style and car contributed. I thought WRONG.

I should have listened. What an expensive mess I now have to fix........

Rick

WBHighwind

I ran a set of Hawk DTC70s last week end that were put on the car with 75% life left. I ended up getting the whole week end out of them which is decent. I get better life out of the Blue compound, but you sacrifice rotor life by running Blues.

Ive never run carbotech pads, so I cant comment on their life. However, I did decided last week end that my next mod will be the GStop package from LG.

the blur

I have found their pads to be Inconsistant from box to box. That was before they moved to their recent facility. I was kinda annoyed Larry Narcus wouldn't replace the set of pads I thought had zero stopping power. This was years ago, and I havn't used them much since. I tried one set of XP11's, but they didn't last too long.

more recently I run PF's. and they are dead consistant from box to box. They last longer, and I don't bed them. I just run them out of the box.

I have never lost my brakes, thank goodness. I couldn't imagine how that feels. I'd definately wet my pants.

I know with the C5, if your running full active handling, you need to watch them rear brakes. I have seen rear cracked rotors just from the active handling pulsating the rears. with the C4, I have never cracked a rear rotor.

rikhek

I forgot to mention, I run with ALL controls off. No active handling or traction control.

VERY important piece on information relative to rear pad wear.

Rick

mikahb

Sorry to hear about your experience - that's a real bummer!

Just to balance the perspective on this thread - I ran Carbotech pads for most of this year and had no such similar experiences with them. I found them to be consistent across the 6 sets of front pads and 2 sets of rears I used. They all offered good, consistent stopping power and reliably lasted one weekend (that's about all you get from pads in T1 generally).

I can't think of any suggestions about what could've caused your issues, but hopefully there's something more to it than just bad pads.

rbeckham

Rick - you didn;t say if you were running AH. This has been my experience even when using "comp mode." But I know the AH on my 2000 is not as good as the later cars. Anyway, I always just turn it off.

GettReal

Sounds like my experience 2 weeks ago (Im putting these pics up for the welding reference)... These were brand new Hawks switched out in between sessions... Right side was worn but ok, the left side... as you can see, not so good. I got to finish my session and my day but this is what I found when I got home. I know... ugly I was actually going to try Carbotechs next... Maybe I'll hold off

**EDit** I was running with AH and TC ON

C6400hp

FWIW, I really, really like the PFC 01 I used when I had stock brakes.

rikhek

FWIW I'll mention again, I run with all controls off, no traction control or active handling

That caliper picture above look damn near identical to what I ended up taking off at the track last night.

Also, I've personally found the PFC01 pads to be the best out there for stock calipers. Only drawback is they cost so much.

Anbody have some PFC01 pads they want to sell, new or used?

I've never tried Wilwood pads yet.... Wondering about them and which compound.

Cobra4B

You are correct... that's a very important piece of info. My father went through a brand new set of oem Z06 pads in the rear in one weekend (2 days, 4 30 min sessions a day) at VIR. He had AH on which killed the rear pads, luckily they were just used up after he come off of his last session and I had spares to get him home.

I had the same experience with Carbotech XP12s up front and XP10s out back. For the recod the stopping and pedal feel was fantastic, plus, as advertised the brake dust washes right off!

The downside is that after one weekend the fronts were shot... but in my case the rears were ok, looked good for a 2nd weekend. I won't use them again... can't worry about getting at least one weekend out of front pads.

Not sure why your rears would have gone away so fast... maybe XP8s are even worse than 10s.

I've had the best luck with Wilwood H pads. I've only run stock, Hawk Blues, Carbotechs, and The wilwood Js, then Hs.

I will never ever touch another Hawk pad... the blues damn near ruined my paint when I hit rain on the way home from the track once. The brake dust imbeds in the clear and starts to rust. It took oven cleaner to clean my wheels, and a weekend of clay bar and buffing to clean my paint. For a dual use car this is not acceptable.

My favorite have been the H pads... they taper less than any pad I've used using factory calipers. They also last and last and last... I've gotten 8 weekends out of a a set. The downside is they are harder on rotors, but I've found I could get a weekend or two if I bed them in properly and made sure to modify my braking technique... don't shock the rotors by going full hard on the pedal. I would give it just enough pressure to get the pads in contact w/ the rotor for a split second and then went full on the brake... made a huge difference in rotor live and spontaneously cracked rotors... plus doing extra cool down laps in the pits.

Good luck... I'd rather bring spare rotors at $30 each than eat through pads so fast.

rikhek

Yeah, I always have a spare set of front and rear rotors with me. I just never brought spare calipers. Have them in the garage just never pack them (my attemp at a little humor).

Anybody know the part number for the Wilwood H or who offers the best price?

Rick

EDIT: Found Wilwood H part numers:
F: 15H-8600K
R: 15H-8599K

Now, who sells them at the lowest price?

tmak26b

Maybe the C6 is difference. I used XP10 all around. I got 5 days out of the fronts pads (at about 100 miles each day) on the fronts, I still have 50% left in the rear after 5 days. Even on my old Nissan, I got 250-300 miles out of the pads, and that was with the non brembo model. If there is a pad that can last all season and stops just as well, I am all ears.

levettegrl

tmak26b, same here.

I have been running Carbotech XP10/8's with stock calipers for over 4 yrs now 50+HPDE's later and they are still an awsome pad for me...usually last 2 wknds.

02impactblue

I switched from the carbotechs as well do to extremely fast wear. I went through a set of xp 12's in 4 20 min sessions at Watkins Glen last year. I had to borrow brake pads from Z06bob to finish my event. That was the last time I used them. The wilwood H pads last much longer and East Coast Supoercharging has them in stock at a good price. I may try the pfc 01's next year, I here great feedback from folks that use them.

Lan.Jet

I used XP10 on the front and XP8’s on the rear and was getting five plus track days out of the fronts and longer on the rear. I am not running R compound tires though. The problem I had was they eat the rotors and since I switched to Colman rotors I stared to use Cobalt and can’t say enough good things about them. The only bad thing is the price at $450 for a front set it’s a killer.

EvilBoffin

I can't speak of the Carbotechs, but I put 4 hard-run DE days at VIR on a set of H's, and they still look nearly new. Bought them from Chris at ECS.

They're lasting really well, with unnoticeable taper (though that is on an '08 Z51 with only 4k miles, and the taper issue apparently gets worse as the caliper spreads over time - per Chris Ingle).

Too bad the Cobalts are so insanely expensive - I would like to try a set. But I can't afford to get back on-track any time soon anyways ...
.

gkmccready

I thought that, too... but they have one weird behaviour. When you brake the amount you slow isn't linear with pedal pressure... the longer you have the brakes on the more the pads want to grab. I switched to Wilwood H pads which had as good, if not better, overall stopping power, they wear better, and they respond linearly with pedal pressure rather than with heat build up.

Short version is Wilwood H is wears better, brakes as well, and is cheaper, too. Bonus was I could continue using the H compound when I moved to SL6R calipers, too. :-)

As for where to get pads, MSI carries the PFCs, and HardbarUSA has the Wilwoods. They're both forum sponsors.

lbarnard

Gave up on Carbotech a long time ago. They stopped very well but really did not last as long. I have been using HT-10 Hawk; recently I was using BHP pads until they went out of business; they may be back; looks like I will be back with Hawk HT-10;