Time for paddles?
11-20-2007, 01:42 AM
#1
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Time for paddles?
Well guys is the new A6 with TM delete ready for prime time? It seams that we all know the Ferrari F1 shifters are the hot ticket but only Ferrari has a really good one. They shift on various models from 100-300ms/shift. Everyone complains about the A6 slow shift and mind of its own. Tuners are now tuning out the torque management to get "instant shifts" GM claims 300-500ms shifts with stock 2008 A6. With TM delete ownres claim instant shifts maybe constant 300ms???? I don't know if instant is really instant. So the time window is narrowing anyway between speed of 6sp Vs. paddle shift? There could be a huge advantage here with A6 for easy left foot brake/trail brake and brake control with shifting. also, there is claimed to be a tuner who has a 1000hp moving through a stock A6. Others calculate 700hp to be the A6 max before quick destruction. Either way it seems to be that we have some head room for engine development easy to the 500hp neighborhood to get to where the ZO6 is. What do you guys think? Why do you think GM has not jumped on this for the ZO6? They have to know what aftermarket tuners are doing.
and, now i exit...
11-20-2007, 03:32 AM
#3
Fighter jet pilots don't row a clutch, and I don't need to be relegated to that practice either.Yep, it's time for an smg system like BMW or Ferrari has, or high performance autos.
I track an auto, and I love it. I've tuned out a lot of the annoyances with HPTuners, but I still have issues, and keeping it cool is one of them.
11-20-2007, 06:11 AM
#4
Le Mans Master
the systems in Ferrari and race cars are electronically controled manual transmissions, not slush boxes with buttons to suggest when you, the humble drive, think that it's time to shift if the computer agrees with you. HUGE difference. If GM want's to do it right, i'm all for it, until then, give me a clutch.
11-20-2007, 07:20 AM
#5
Race Director
I agree, putting paddles onto an Automatic do NOT make it an automatically shifted manual transmission. However, if the ratios between gears is close enough, the torque converter locks up solid (like a clutch), and the shifts are quick enough, there is no reason it can't perform just fine.
I personally enjoy shifting, downshifting, and don't see GM doing a true manual autoshift anytime soon.
I personally enjoy shifting, downshifting, and don't see GM doing a true manual autoshift anytime soon.
11-20-2007, 07:38 AM
#6
Team Owner
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IIRC from talking to some of the GM Engineers, the auto trans, especially the new A6 can not take the tq of what the MN6 or MZ6 can take.
And this maybe were some of the newer A6s are having TQ management issues.
And this maybe were some of the newer A6s are having TQ management issues.
11-20-2007, 07:43 AM
#7
Burning Brakes
I would love to see a true electronically controlled manual come into its own the vette. My big feet, heavy legs small corvette cockpits make for managing 3 pedals difficult.
Last edited by astock165; 11-20-2007 at 01:26 PM.
11-20-2007, 07:52 AM
#8
Melting Slicks
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rowing the gears is part of the fun...
I agree with everone here, the a6 paddle shift is probably alot better then the previous "manual autos," but it does not the same as the bmw/ferrari smg type trans.
does the new a6 hold gears to red line? or does the computer automatically shift for you? Every "manual auto" i have driven will shift for you if you get too close red line and wont hold the selected gear.
I agree with everone here, the a6 paddle shift is probably alot better then the previous "manual autos," but it does not the same as the bmw/ferrari smg type trans.
does the new a6 hold gears to red line? or does the computer automatically shift for you? Every "manual auto" i have driven will shift for you if you get too close red line and wont hold the selected gear.
11-20-2007, 11:08 AM
#10
Race Director
You should be able to make something, I did on my old turbo car but that is not the same trans as you have. I put in a manual valve body, B&M shifter, co2 air ram, and electronic control. I put an upshift and downshift button on the steering wheel. I could upshift or downshift whenever I wanted to. The electronic control had an RPM adjustment for a full auto shift. I set that to 6,000 RPM. It was a fun setup! It took a lot of fab work to make it look decent as I had to cut away a lot of the center cabin trim around the shifter.
11-20-2007, 10:19 PM
#12
Is there a big cost difference between the Ferrari/race car system and the GM A6 unit? Is that the driving factor?
I would love to see a true electronically controlled manual come into its own the vette. My big feet, heavy legs small corvette cockpits make for managing 3 pedals difficult.
I would love to see a true electronically controlled manual come into its own the vette. My big feet, heavy legs small corvette cockpits make for managing 3 pedals difficult.
11-20-2007, 11:30 PM
#13
Drifting
Member Since: Dec 2006
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Is there a big cost difference between the Ferrari/race car system and the GM A6 unit? Is that the driving factor?
I would love to see a true electronically controlled manual come into its own the vette. My big feet, heavy legs small corvette cockpits make for managing 3 pedals difficult.
I would love to see a true electronically controlled manual come into its own the vette. My big feet, heavy legs small corvette cockpits make for managing 3 pedals difficult.
Applications: Bugatti Veyron, VW/Audi (DSG) and it will come next year in the Nissan GTR and Mitsubishi Evo. Other manufacturers will follow: BMW, Porsche, etc.
DCT is better than the Ferrari F1, Lamborghini e-Gear or BMW SMG systems (all have only one clutch).
As for the cost, the transmission and clutch system is not much more expensive that the old torque converter auto like the A6 in Corvette. DSG is found even in cheap cars, like VW Jetta.
What is expensive is the development and testing, plus licensing costs.
These costs must be spread on a large number of cars.
DCT is the future, we will see it in all cars in 5-10 years from now.
11-20-2007, 11:51 PM
#14
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
the systems in Ferrari and race cars are electronically controled manual transmissions, not slush boxes with buttons to suggest when you, the humble drive, think that it's time to shift if the computer agrees with you. HUGE difference. If GM want's to do it right, i'm all for it, until then, give me a clutch.
11-20-2007, 11:55 PM
#15
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
You are a racer IIRC. I agree but when I drive a 360 F1 on a road corse I am definately faster with the F-1 than w/o it in a similar ferrari. If I run a corse with 10 turns and can be done with shifting only 1/10th second faster that is 1 entire second/lap. And I think the advantage with not only faster shifts but superior pedal control and trail braking adds to even more time saved. I just don't have the driver skill to do what I can do with an F1 with a manual gearbox.
11-20-2007, 11:57 PM
#16
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
rowing the gears is part of the fun...
I agree with everone here, the a6 paddle shift is probably alot better then the previous "manual autos," but it does not the same as the bmw/ferrari smg type trans.
does the new a6 hold gears to red line? or does the computer automatically shift for you? Every "manual auto" i have driven will shift for you if you get too close red line and wont hold the selected gear.
I agree with everone here, the a6 paddle shift is probably alot better then the previous "manual autos," but it does not the same as the bmw/ferrari smg type trans.
does the new a6 hold gears to red line? or does the computer automatically shift for you? Every "manual auto" i have driven will shift for you if you get too close red line and wont hold the selected gear.
11-21-2007, 12:02 AM
#17
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
What measures have to taked to keep the tranny cool?
Does your A6 shift fast when you want it to and only when you want it to?
11-21-2007, 01:53 AM
#18
Have you considered the tunes offered by Jerremy in florida? and other forum sponcers who claim all knids of great things beyond the HP tuners personal handheld unit?
What measures have to taked to keep the tranny cool?
Does your A6 shift fast when you want it to and only when you want it to?
What measures have to taked to keep the tranny cool?
Does your A6 shift fast when you want it to and only when you want it to?
My latest attempt at cooling the trans can be viewed here:
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1858595
11-21-2007, 04:34 AM
#19
Le Mans Master
11-21-2007, 07:57 AM
#20
Burning Brakes
The best transmission/clutch technology in the world is the DCT, a dual-clutch system invented by BorgWarner, an American company.
Applications: Bugatti Veyron, VW/Audi (DSG) and it will come next year in the Nissan GTR and Mitsubishi Evo. Other manufacturers will follow: BMW, Porsche, etc.
DCT is better than the Ferrari F1, Lamborghini e-Gear or BMW SMG systems (all have only one clutch).
As for the cost, the transmission and clutch system is not much more expensive that the old torque converter auto like the A6 in Corvette. DSG is found even in cheap cars, like VW Jetta.
What is expensive is the development and testing, plus licensing costs.
These costs must be spread on a large number of cars.
DCT is the future, we will see it in all cars in 5-10 years from now.
Applications: Bugatti Veyron, VW/Audi (DSG) and it will come next year in the Nissan GTR and Mitsubishi Evo. Other manufacturers will follow: BMW, Porsche, etc.
DCT is better than the Ferrari F1, Lamborghini e-Gear or BMW SMG systems (all have only one clutch).
As for the cost, the transmission and clutch system is not much more expensive that the old torque converter auto like the A6 in Corvette. DSG is found even in cheap cars, like VW Jetta.
What is expensive is the development and testing, plus licensing costs.
These costs must be spread on a large number of cars.
DCT is the future, we will see it in all cars in 5-10 years from now.
Maybe I'm just in the minority of thinking this is a phenominal idea.