Not that excited anymore about Track day
11-17-2007, 01:05 AM
#1
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Not that excited anymore about Track day
Sunday, we are having a TD with the Club members.
I am usually very exited about TD's.
Today is different, I am really nervous, the Club members own F bodies mainly and have a lot of 1/4 mile racing experience but only a few have some road racing and TD experience.
A lot of them do not know about their car handling , they just know how to launch really fast and change gears without errors.
Maybe this TD will be very fun but very challenging, with all that muscle ready to be unleashed and ready to find new challenges, well, it might not be that good.
So let's see how this goes, I will post pictures next week and hope that we have a fun sunday without accidents to regret.
Has your experience been good when driving besides this kind of cars?
I am usually very exited about TD's.
Today is different, I am really nervous, the Club members own F bodies mainly and have a lot of 1/4 mile racing experience but only a few have some road racing and TD experience.
A lot of them do not know about their car handling , they just know how to launch really fast and change gears without errors.
Maybe this TD will be very fun but very challenging, with all that muscle ready to be unleashed and ready to find new challenges, well, it might not be that good.
So let's see how this goes, I will post pictures next week and hope that we have a fun sunday without accidents to regret.
Has your experience been good when driving besides this kind of cars?
11-17-2007, 05:54 AM
#2
Burning Brakes
Sunday, we are having a TD with the Club members.
I am usually very exited about TD's.
Today is different, I am really nervous, the Club members own F bodies mainly and have a lot of 1/4 mile racing experience but only a few have some road racing and TD experience.
A lot of them do not know about their car handling , they just know how to launch really fast and change gears without errors.
Maybe this TD will be very fun but very challenging, with all that muscle ready to be unleashed and ready to find new challenges, well, it might not be that good.
So let's see how this goes, I will post pictures next week and hope that we have a fun sunday without accidents to regret.
Has your experience been good when driving besides this kind of cars?
I am usually very exited about TD's.
Today is different, I am really nervous, the Club members own F bodies mainly and have a lot of 1/4 mile racing experience but only a few have some road racing and TD experience.
A lot of them do not know about their car handling , they just know how to launch really fast and change gears without errors.
Maybe this TD will be very fun but very challenging, with all that muscle ready to be unleashed and ready to find new challenges, well, it might not be that good.
So let's see how this goes, I will post pictures next week and hope that we have a fun sunday without accidents to regret.
Has your experience been good when driving besides this kind of cars?
Let them go out first so that you're behind them. When they launch out of a turn and power shift, have a laugh when they lose control.
11-17-2007, 07:22 AM
#3
Melting Slicks
I was out on track yesterday with everything from Volvos and Honda Civics, to vettes, Lotus, Subarus, and race cars using the day as a test and tune for this weekend's racing... And the driving experiences were very wide.
It'll be as fun as you make it. Set your expectations, and go out of your way to help these "1/4" mile guys. When the shoe is on the other foot, as was the case with me this past Monday, they'll return the favor.
Mike
It'll be as fun as you make it. Set your expectations, and go out of your way to help these "1/4" mile guys. When the shoe is on the other foot, as was the case with me this past Monday, they'll return the favor.
Mike
11-17-2007, 03:55 PM
#4
Le Mans Master
:o :o :o
11-17-2007, 07:49 PM
#6
Melting Slicks
These are members of your Club, so I presume they know you have TD experience. Hopefully with that in mind they'll listen when you try to give advice. Fbodies are pretty competent on a road course, but the brakes are questionable at best. They have enough stopping power, but cannot handle the heat of repeated stops.
I suggest you warn your Club members of this and suggest they take some precautions regarding their brakes. A few options are to run one very easy “cool down” lap between every 2 or 3 hot laps but this can be dangerous with a bunch of rookies that don’t understand point-bys or the proper way to drive off the pace. A better option would probably be to suggest they run a portion of the sessions, then come into the pits and give the brakes a few minutes to cool. Unfortunately cooling when stopped is much less effective, but it’s much safer than having cars out doing cool-down laps. Nobody likes that idea, but if you’re running 25 minute sessions they should be able to run 10 minutes, cool for 5, then go back out for another 10. If folks do try to run full sessions you should warn them to back way off and come in immediately as soon as they feel the brakes going away on them, in my experience it is “when” not “if.”
The problem is often compounded by ¼ mile guys adding a LOT of HP to those cars and perhaps drag oriented suspension setups. Now you have a car that is capable of huge straightaway speeds, but needs to enter the turn at a much lower speed than most. Obviously this exacerbates the braking issue since they’ll need to brake longer and harder. I guess all you can really do is preach 7/10ths at most and suggest they brake earlier and softer to leave room for error or brakes going away and hopefully preserve the brakes some.
With my ’99 Z28 I ended up putting Porsche 996 TT brakes on the front of it. And I’ve had a friend who had drastic brake failure in his ’98 Z28 at a track day. The brakes got hot enough to melt out all of the seals and the pads basically disintegrated (they had plenty of meat on them starting the session). This caused full brake loss, absolutely zero brakes not just soft brakes. When everything cooled down the pistons had actually “welded” themselves to the backing plate of the pads they had gotten so hot.
-TJ
I suggest you warn your Club members of this and suggest they take some precautions regarding their brakes. A few options are to run one very easy “cool down” lap between every 2 or 3 hot laps but this can be dangerous with a bunch of rookies that don’t understand point-bys or the proper way to drive off the pace. A better option would probably be to suggest they run a portion of the sessions, then come into the pits and give the brakes a few minutes to cool. Unfortunately cooling when stopped is much less effective, but it’s much safer than having cars out doing cool-down laps. Nobody likes that idea, but if you’re running 25 minute sessions they should be able to run 10 minutes, cool for 5, then go back out for another 10. If folks do try to run full sessions you should warn them to back way off and come in immediately as soon as they feel the brakes going away on them, in my experience it is “when” not “if.”
The problem is often compounded by ¼ mile guys adding a LOT of HP to those cars and perhaps drag oriented suspension setups. Now you have a car that is capable of huge straightaway speeds, but needs to enter the turn at a much lower speed than most. Obviously this exacerbates the braking issue since they’ll need to brake longer and harder. I guess all you can really do is preach 7/10ths at most and suggest they brake earlier and softer to leave room for error or brakes going away and hopefully preserve the brakes some.
With my ’99 Z28 I ended up putting Porsche 996 TT brakes on the front of it. And I’ve had a friend who had drastic brake failure in his ’98 Z28 at a track day. The brakes got hot enough to melt out all of the seals and the pads basically disintegrated (they had plenty of meat on them starting the session). This caused full brake loss, absolutely zero brakes not just soft brakes. When everything cooled down the pistons had actually “welded” themselves to the backing plate of the pads they had gotten so hot.
-TJ
11-17-2007, 08:21 PM
#7
Former Vendor
The Mid-west F-body guys do pretty well at track days. Remember it's a lot hard to drive a F-body fast because they just don't have the vette feel. But you never know with more then one car on the road that includes the highway to the track.
Randy
Randy
11-17-2007, 08:28 PM
#8
What I don't like about some of the Fbody guys is that they seem to have a chip on their shoulder when they are near a Corvette. The same seems to be true about Mustang drivers. It's like they have something to prove against the Corvette. I just let those guys go and If I find myself coming up on them, I'll slow up and let them get ahead.
Not all are like this though.
Not all are like this though.
11-17-2007, 10:00 PM
#9
Burning Brakes
Member Since: Oct 2004
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Interesting that the MFBA event is predominately Vettes mixed in with WRXs, Porsches and Bimmers. Only three F Bodies were in the Instructor Group.
11-18-2007, 12:53 AM
#10
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
These are members of your Club, so I presume they know you have TD experience. Hopefully with that in mind they'll listen when you try to give advice. Fbodies are pretty competent on a road course, but the brakes are questionable at best. They have enough stopping power, but cannot handle the heat of repeated stops.
I suggest you warn your Club members of this and suggest they take some precautions regarding their brakes. A few options are to run one very easy “cool down” lap between every 2 or 3 hot laps but this can be dangerous with a bunch of rookies that don’t understand point-bys or the proper way to drive off the pace. A better option would probably be to suggest they run a portion of the sessions, then come into the pits and give the brakes a few minutes to cool. Unfortunately cooling when stopped is much less effective, but it’s much safer than having cars out doing cool-down laps. Nobody likes that idea, but if you’re running 25 minute sessions they should be able to run 10 minutes, cool for 5, then go back out for another 10. If folks do try to run full sessions you should warn them to back way off and come in immediately as soon as they feel the brakes going away on them, in my experience it is “when” not “if.”
The problem is often compounded by ¼ mile guys adding a LOT of HP to those cars and perhaps drag oriented suspension setups. Now you have a car that is capable of huge straightaway speeds, but needs to enter the turn at a much lower speed than most. Obviously this exacerbates the braking issue since they’ll need to brake longer and harder. I guess all you can really do is preach 7/10ths at most and suggest they brake earlier and softer to leave room for error or brakes going away and hopefully preserve the brakes some.
With my ’99 Z28 I ended up putting Porsche 996 TT brakes on the front of it. And I’ve had a friend who had drastic brake failure in his ’98 Z28 at a track day. The brakes got hot enough to melt out all of the seals and the pads basically disintegrated (they had plenty of meat on them starting the session). This caused full brake loss, absolutely zero brakes not just soft brakes. When everything cooled down the pistons had actually “welded” themselves to the backing plate of the pads they had gotten so hot.
-TJ
I suggest you warn your Club members of this and suggest they take some precautions regarding their brakes. A few options are to run one very easy “cool down” lap between every 2 or 3 hot laps but this can be dangerous with a bunch of rookies that don’t understand point-bys or the proper way to drive off the pace. A better option would probably be to suggest they run a portion of the sessions, then come into the pits and give the brakes a few minutes to cool. Unfortunately cooling when stopped is much less effective, but it’s much safer than having cars out doing cool-down laps. Nobody likes that idea, but if you’re running 25 minute sessions they should be able to run 10 minutes, cool for 5, then go back out for another 10. If folks do try to run full sessions you should warn them to back way off and come in immediately as soon as they feel the brakes going away on them, in my experience it is “when” not “if.”
The problem is often compounded by ¼ mile guys adding a LOT of HP to those cars and perhaps drag oriented suspension setups. Now you have a car that is capable of huge straightaway speeds, but needs to enter the turn at a much lower speed than most. Obviously this exacerbates the braking issue since they’ll need to brake longer and harder. I guess all you can really do is preach 7/10ths at most and suggest they brake earlier and softer to leave room for error or brakes going away and hopefully preserve the brakes some.
With my ’99 Z28 I ended up putting Porsche 996 TT brakes on the front of it. And I’ve had a friend who had drastic brake failure in his ’98 Z28 at a track day. The brakes got hot enough to melt out all of the seals and the pads basically disintegrated (they had plenty of meat on them starting the session). This caused full brake loss, absolutely zero brakes not just soft brakes. When everything cooled down the pistons had actually “welded” themselves to the backing plate of the pads they had gotten so hot.
-TJ
By the way, on past track days we usually do a couple of cooling laps but have been adviced not to use the parking brake when entering the pits, is it true that this can help bend the rotors?
11-18-2007, 02:05 AM
#11
Tech Contributor
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Bill
11-18-2007, 12:00 PM
#12
Le Mans Master
???? Using the parking brake when coming into the pits??? Do you mean for parking? Not sure if it would warp a rotor although supposedly they do. Do not use the parking brake at all, your cars either have a parking gear or a manual transmission that can be left in 4th gear.
Bill
Bill
First off, I have never actually seen an officially warped rotor. From what I have experienced personally and from what I have read, it has always been a build-up of too much brake pad material on the rotor.
Second, the parking brake on the Corvettes is different. It is a mini drum brake in the rotor, so we don't have the problem of calipers and pads over-heating in one spot when pressed against a wickedly hot rotor. I personally still dont use the p-brake. I just park my car with it in first gear.
11-18-2007, 03:47 PM
#13
Team Owner
I use both...I'll come into the pits in 2nd, then 1st...then I'll use the PB to get to a crawl as I pull into my spot.
Once I'm barely moving I let the clutch out and use that to stop.
As the previous poster said the C5 uses a drum in hat PB so you should not run into any problems at all.
I started out in an F-body and have a huge variety of people who come to our events.
I say this everytime these type of threads come up. Its the organizer of the event who sets the tone for the day.
If setting the tone means you explain the rules and are not totally confident in some of the people or you have people with attitudes then their first issue you pull them. If they don't get it, you kick them off the track.
Plain and simple. You have 40-70 people where you are responsible for enforcing the rules.
You have people who don't have a good grasp of what they are doing and make honest mistakes then you have the Fast and Furious wannabe's who do not listen and if they don't change their attitude do not need to be part of your event.
Once I'm barely moving I let the clutch out and use that to stop.
As the previous poster said the C5 uses a drum in hat PB so you should not run into any problems at all.
I started out in an F-body and have a huge variety of people who come to our events.
I say this everytime these type of threads come up. Its the organizer of the event who sets the tone for the day.
If setting the tone means you explain the rules and are not totally confident in some of the people or you have people with attitudes then their first issue you pull them. If they don't get it, you kick them off the track.
Plain and simple. You have 40-70 people where you are responsible for enforcing the rules.
You have people who don't have a good grasp of what they are doing and make honest mistakes then you have the Fast and Furious wannabe's who do not listen and if they don't change their attitude do not need to be part of your event.
Last edited by NoOne; 11-18-2007 at 03:54 PM.