heavychevy

I tried some Yoko Slick Scrubs recently and while getting a much better turn in grip, the back end didnt fell much more planted than MPSC's.

Just wanted to know what you guys though about which would turn faster laps.

wallyman424

actual "slicks" are usually faster, given 2 things:

1. they drop off a lot faster with heat cycles, aka only last like 3-4 heat cycles
2. they need A LOT more heat in them to be sticky. they wont be as fast right at the drop of the green flag, but given 1-2 laps, theyll take over.

heavychevy

Hmmmm, I drove 5 15 minute sessions this past weekend, and the Yoko's hardly look like they are any worse than they were when I put them on and I got my fastest lap on the last session at Barber.

I was also able to get 25 heat cycles out of Hoosier R3S03's and got my fastest lap at Road Atlanta on the 23rd.

wallyman424

i'm just goin off the experience of some GTS racers I know.

however, if you're getting your fastest lap time at the end of your tire life, thats due to you getting faster, not the tires. It is a fact that tires are faster when theyre fresh, and slower when theyre not.

heavychevy

Yes I agree, it was me getting faster.


So after 3-4 heat cycles the R6's would be comparable???? I just need to run some R6's and get it over with.

rustyguns

WOW! You must be a damn good smooth driver or your competition is real slow

Wish mine lasted that long

I have never tried a Yoko but if you have any used slicks you want to get rid of send me a PM and I will test them for you

AU N EGL

25 heat cycles? Heavy, your not driving hard enough. Most likely they were never up to 180* or so not really being heat cycled.

Time to pick up the pace as Wallyman mentioned.

R6s could get 5-7 good heat cycles, then another 10-12 of OK traction. Still better then street tires

A6s - 2-4 heat cycles, but 2-3 secs a lap quicker with the right driver.

ScaryFast

R's will definately fall off after 5 or so heay cycles.

I've been running the 'kooks, and they were slowly falling off in a manner common to R6's or V710's until the 10th heat cycle...suddenly they disappeared and my lap times were 2 full seconds slower!

It was a hot day, afternoon session, so I'm sure they heated up faster. But I've never had a tire change grip so suddenly. Cost me 1st place...

Golden's spot on, 5 fast cycles, then about 10 more decent ones (about 1 second slower), then pass them along to your beginner HPDE buddies as they'll have lots of tread but no grip...

heavychevy

I dont understand that, I run 1:36's regularly at Road Atlanta, ran 1:06 at Talladega GP, 1:20 (slow w/ instructor) at Roebling. That was on the R3's. Did another 1:36 at RA on my second lap of breaking in my MPSC as RA. Then 1:36 at barber on the yokos. I drive very hard, but for some reason, I only eat through tires that have tread on them.

I'm not a slow poke by any means, I drive HARD. My car pushes quite a bit so lateral grip suffers, maybe that's it. I'm just learning how to be effective with throttle steer in my car as I am a relative noob (1 1/2 years). I know my times are good though because I keep up with everyone that runs at the various tracks. But for some reason I dont eat the tires away quickly, or maybe I can be a lot faster than I am and I'm leaving lots of grip on the table.

I bought the R3's from a guy that had them sitting in his house for a couple of years, they were brand new, but hard, took me a long time to even be able to get heat in them.

heavychevy

But as my car is heavy, I never do more than 8 laps in a session. And time trials session, always catching lap traffic after 4-5 laps so I pit. Do these not count as heat cycles if I only run 5 laps or less in some scenarios?

My car is heavy as well (3590 w driver). So I would expect it to get tires hot EASILY.

AU N EGL

1:36s are mighty fine times. Upper 1:27s-1:30s - That 6-7 secs is a big difference on tire grip and ware. Even the Rs or As even on you P-car are capable of that.

heavychevy

I would put money my car wont go 1:27 with R6's, or A6's. 1:30 is a stretch.

This is a basically a full weight street car with ECU, exhaust and coilovers. 3400 lbs (full tank, no driver).

ScaryFast

I don't know those tracks so I can't tell you based on times, but there is a huge difference between fast in a club event and fast in a competitive, sanctioned class.

I used to smoke everyone in the fast group at PCA and BMW events and think I was the ****. I could get a full season out of about two sets of tires.

Then I started competing and realized what fast is. I took 6 seconds off of my previous best times at M-Ohio this season with no changes to my car. That also translated to a big difference in tire life. Like I said before, I used to run a set of Hoosiers until they were out of tread. Now after 10 cycles I feel like I'm driving on oil, and those lap times are still quicker than they were last year.

Just like anything, It's all relative. So yes, it's possible that you're getting your fastest times late in the tire's life, but I bet it's all becuase you're improving; I can assure you, the tires are definately not.

heavychevy

I agree completely. I would never expect tires to be faster late in the cycle that early.

My first time driving on R comps was the hoosiers, so I am really just now realizing how much grip I have. That's why I got faster, the more I trusted the tires, and the more I learned the car, and improved my driving.

I still am figuring out tips to fix the inherent push issue not only for 911's but for AWD cars (power understeer) as well.

But I just want to know which would be faster, my R3's (new) actually felt stickier than the yokos (used). but I havent had them on the same track as of yet to determine for sure.




I really want to decide how I will go about getting tires. I wont be buying new tires for DE's, I'll be buying scrubs for sure, I compete in Time trials probably 5-6 times a year, so that's when I need to be on top of my game. My car is a tweener rigt now (between two classes) so my tire type will determine what class I'm in, I just want to know if if the car is the same, if I'll be able to turn as good of times with the R6's in competition as I do with the Yoko Scrubs in practice.

ScaryFast

I know it sounds like I'm avoiding the question, so I apologize. But if you're not consistantly running laps within 0.5 seconds of each other this question is irrelevant. So, assuming you are, here is my suggestion:

Buy one set of NEW Hoosier A6's or Hankook C70's. Only use them in your timed runs then take them off the car.

For DE's, get some scrubs from someone (I use Bob Chick - usdrctrs@aol.com I think) and run them until they're slippery. They usually arrive with about 5 heat cycles on them.

As a general rule of thumb, Hoosier A6's and 'kook C70's (I think they're at C71 now) are the fastest. The R6, V710, and C50 are second, and the other brands like Nitto, Toyo, and the V700's are third. Tire life is inversely proportional to overall grip

Keep in mind that your line will have to change with the new tires on the car. You will turn in quicker and find that you're then early apexing certain corners...this is a tricky thing you're getting yourself into.

heavychevy

Thanks for your input, that is a great Idea.

It's very hard running consistant laps within 5 seconds of each other in DE, and or Time Trials, but I probably should try to do so, I have no doubt I am capable of it, all of my clean laps are within .5 though.

Does that count?

ScaryFast

NP. I could talk about this stuff all day long if they'd let me

Yeah, of course if you're hitting traffic things are out of your control.

Do you have a lap timer in your car?

When you do trials, don't they grid you based on lap times? You should be able to get some clean laps before running into traffic.

AU N EGL

Yes it does. However, if your not using brand new ( 1st heat cycle) tires, you wont notice much difference.

heavychevy

Yes,I have a traqmate and I'm always comparing data, the worst I'm grided at Time Trials is usually thrid. But it depends on the track as well. St RA we get probably the whole session as long as people dont come out late, but after the slow parade lap that ends up being 5-6 laps tops. At Barber I was first all weekend, and caught lap traffic between 3-4 laps, and sometimes people would get out late, and it screwed me up too.


In fact my fastest lap I came out for what would be my last session of the day, bunched the group up on the out lap, ran a 3/4's pace lap to make sure I had heat, then went for it, no sooner than I finished my first hot lap (1:36.9) I someone came to the track late and I was in danger of not beating my best time (I told my wife if I did we could skip the last two sessions and go home), but I thought quickly and decided to follow the car for a lap, pass him on the front straight and hope therewould be still enough room between him and the lap traffic to get one full clean lap in (I felt like F1 when they have that last shot to get a fast lap), so I did just that and no sooner than I came around the last turn there were cars on the striaght, I had to go "all in" and pass some cars just after finishline in the braking zone to make sure I didnt lift early, but I got the lap I was looking for (1:36.621) which bested my best up to that point (1:36.842). I was pretty proud of myself for that.

John Shiels