Racing Brake vs. Carbotech...no comparison
09-11-2007, 09:57 PM
#1
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Racing Brake vs. Carbotech...no comparison
Fact: The C6Z06 eats brake pads like they do hot dogs at an eating contest. Unless you pony up $4k+ for a BBK you are gonna go through pads and rotors.
Racing Brake looked like an alternative to Carbotech at about $100 less/set. Their participation and posting in discussions helped sway me into trying there stuff.
I have held back from posting since my 1st track event in April until now because I wanted to give RB a fair shot. I had some very bad results on that 1st event and RB stepped up to the plate with refunds and they paid for me to replace calipers, SRF, gave me a good discount on a set of 2P RB rotors, recalled the pads (giving those with knowledge or email adds refunds on the pads too), and they developed better (in theory) pads, and they gave me a set to test. I have no complaints with their efforts or customer service.
I'm an aggressive, late braking driver with laps times at Road America around 2:30-2:32, so this is only my experience...your results may vary.
April - Road America, RB ET 700's stock rotors. Front pads were completely burnt off the backing plates in less than 12 laps (1 and a half sessions). resulted in major carnage to the front brake system.
June - Autobahn CC, RB ET 900's RB 2P front rotors. Only got 5 laps in on the full course over 2 session and was learning the south course. pads wore 2 mm and the 2P rotors were groved in just 5 laps.
Sept. - Road America, RB ET 900's RB 2P front rotors (from previous event) pads worn down to the backing plates in 2 full sessions, about 16 laps.
Remove RB 2P rotors, put on stock rotors and a new set of Carbotech XP12's and kept the RB 900's on the rear (as the C6Z06 does little braking with the rear*)
Carbotech's had much better torque and stopping power and they lasted 3 and a half session...exactly as they did last year @ RA.
I still had to put yet another set (Carbotechs) on the front to finish the event but I have to say they perform better and last much longer than the RB stuff did.
Just my comparison with the 2 brands I've used...
And yes there will be a BBK in my future...I'm tired of changing these stupid padlets before the event and twice during
*BTW: the ET 900's I kept on the rear were also worn to the backing plates by the end of the week end.
Racing Brake looked like an alternative to Carbotech at about $100 less/set. Their participation and posting in discussions helped sway me into trying there stuff.
I have held back from posting since my 1st track event in April until now because I wanted to give RB a fair shot. I had some very bad results on that 1st event and RB stepped up to the plate with refunds and they paid for me to replace calipers, SRF, gave me a good discount on a set of 2P RB rotors, recalled the pads (giving those with knowledge or email adds refunds on the pads too), and they developed better (in theory) pads, and they gave me a set to test. I have no complaints with their efforts or customer service.
I'm an aggressive, late braking driver with laps times at Road America around 2:30-2:32, so this is only my experience...your results may vary.
April - Road America, RB ET 700's stock rotors. Front pads were completely burnt off the backing plates in less than 12 laps (1 and a half sessions). resulted in major carnage to the front brake system.
June - Autobahn CC, RB ET 900's RB 2P front rotors. Only got 5 laps in on the full course over 2 session and was learning the south course. pads wore 2 mm and the 2P rotors were groved in just 5 laps.
Sept. - Road America, RB ET 900's RB 2P front rotors (from previous event) pads worn down to the backing plates in 2 full sessions, about 16 laps.
Remove RB 2P rotors, put on stock rotors and a new set of Carbotech XP12's and kept the RB 900's on the rear (as the C6Z06 does little braking with the rear*)
Carbotech's had much better torque and stopping power and they lasted 3 and a half session...exactly as they did last year @ RA.
I still had to put yet another set (Carbotechs) on the front to finish the event but I have to say they perform better and last much longer than the RB stuff did.
Just my comparison with the 2 brands I've used...
And yes there will be a BBK in my future...I'm tired of changing these stupid padlets before the event and twice during
*BTW: the ET 900's I kept on the rear were also worn to the backing plates by the end of the week end.
Last edited by Gary2KC5; 09-11-2007 at 10:01 PM.
09-11-2007, 10:12 PM
#2
Burning Brakes
Member Since: Oct 2004
Location: Naples Florida
Posts: 1,001
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Fact: The C6Z06 eats brake pads like they do hot dogs at an eating contest. Unless you pony up $4k+ for a BBK you are gonna go through pads and rotors.
Racing Brake looked like an alternative to Carbotech at about $100 less/set. Their participation and posting in discussions helped sway me into trying there stuff.
I have held back from posting since my 1st track event in April until now because I wanted to give RB a fair shot. I had some very bad results on that 1st event and RB stepped up to the plate with refunds and they paid for me to replace calipers, SRF, gave me a good discount on a set of 2P RB rotors, recalled the pads (giving those with knowledge or email adds refunds on the pads too), and they developed better (in theory) pads, and they gave me a set to test. I have no complaints with their efforts or customer service.
I'm an aggressive, late braking driver with laps times at Road America around 2:30-2:32, so this is only my experience...your results may vary.
April - Road America, RB ET 700's stock rotors. Front pads were completely burnt off the backing plates in less than 12 laps (1 and a half sessions). resulted in major carnage to the front brake system.
June - Autobahn CC, RB ET 900's RB 2P front rotors. Only got 5 laps in on the full course over 2 session and was learning the south course. pads wore 2 mm and the 2P rotors were groved in just 5 laps.
Sept. - Road America, RB ET 900's RB 2P front rotors (from previous event) pads worn down to the backing plates in 2 full sessions, about 16 laps.
Remove RB 2P rotors, put on stock rotors and a new set of Carbotech XP12's and kept the RB 900's on the rear (as the C6Z06 does little braking with the rear*)
Carbotech's had much better torque and stopping power and they lasted 3 and a half session...exactly as they did last year @ RA.
I still had to put yet another set (Carbotechs) on the front to finish the event but I have to say they perform better and last much longer than the RB stuff did.
Just my comparison with the 2 brands I've used...
And yes there will be a BBK in my future...I'm tired of changing these stupid padlets before the event and twice during
*BTW: the ET 900's I kept on the rear were also worn to the backing plates by the end of the week end.
Racing Brake looked like an alternative to Carbotech at about $100 less/set. Their participation and posting in discussions helped sway me into trying there stuff.
I have held back from posting since my 1st track event in April until now because I wanted to give RB a fair shot. I had some very bad results on that 1st event and RB stepped up to the plate with refunds and they paid for me to replace calipers, SRF, gave me a good discount on a set of 2P RB rotors, recalled the pads (giving those with knowledge or email adds refunds on the pads too), and they developed better (in theory) pads, and they gave me a set to test. I have no complaints with their efforts or customer service.
I'm an aggressive, late braking driver with laps times at Road America around 2:30-2:32, so this is only my experience...your results may vary.
April - Road America, RB ET 700's stock rotors. Front pads were completely burnt off the backing plates in less than 12 laps (1 and a half sessions). resulted in major carnage to the front brake system.
June - Autobahn CC, RB ET 900's RB 2P front rotors. Only got 5 laps in on the full course over 2 session and was learning the south course. pads wore 2 mm and the 2P rotors were groved in just 5 laps.
Sept. - Road America, RB ET 900's RB 2P front rotors (from previous event) pads worn down to the backing plates in 2 full sessions, about 16 laps.
Remove RB 2P rotors, put on stock rotors and a new set of Carbotech XP12's and kept the RB 900's on the rear (as the C6Z06 does little braking with the rear*)
Carbotech's had much better torque and stopping power and they lasted 3 and a half session...exactly as they did last year @ RA.
I still had to put yet another set (Carbotechs) on the front to finish the event but I have to say they perform better and last much longer than the RB stuff did.
Just my comparison with the 2 brands I've used...
And yes there will be a BBK in my future...I'm tired of changing these stupid padlets before the event and twice during
*BTW: the ET 900's I kept on the rear were also worn to the backing plates by the end of the week end.
I too tried the Racing Brake pads because they are a mm thicker than the CarboTechs. I was not happy with them as well. The only brake pad I found that out lasted the CarboTechs were the Cobalt Technologies pads which like the CarboTech are ceramic but produce a better brake torque.
Last edited by rudyarias; 09-11-2007 at 10:16 PM.
09-11-2007, 10:33 PM
#3
Melting Slicks
Member Since: Mar 2002
Location: somewhere on a roadcourse
Posts: 3,246
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cruise-In IV Veteran
I have been running Carbotech's on my C5 for a few yrs now and can honestly say I would be hard pressed to find a better pad
09-12-2007, 02:35 AM
#4
Former Vendor
Member Since: Jan 2002
Location: Defending the US Constitution in Northern CA
Posts: 1,703
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
We have customer's with similar results as you describe. Some of the brake experts that i have spoken with say that a great deal of the problem lie with the release charecteristics (or lack there of) of the stock C6Z Caliper. It seems that many times the brakes do not release completely and that causes intense heat in the pads, Calipers & rotors.
Two of our customers have experienced lower operating costs running the Baer Ext+ as their pad and rotor wear have declined dramatically, while increasing their braking performance a great deal. While we did experience a slightly lower softer pedal,we believe that we have a complementary master cylinder upgrade that will make for a more 'comfortable' pedal.
I've seen test results that shows that the Baer Caliper is the stiffest in it's (below $3000ish) price point. The other 'non-monoblock' calipers are only as stiff as the bolts holding the two halves together. These Baer Calipers are machined from a solid forged aluminum billet. The only other calipers on the market that are this ridgid are by PFC, Alcon and AP and cost much more.
Two of our customers have experienced lower operating costs running the Baer Ext+ as their pad and rotor wear have declined dramatically, while increasing their braking performance a great deal. While we did experience a slightly lower softer pedal,we believe that we have a complementary master cylinder upgrade that will make for a more 'comfortable' pedal.
I've seen test results that shows that the Baer Caliper is the stiffest in it's (below $3000ish) price point. The other 'non-monoblock' calipers are only as stiff as the bolts holding the two halves together. These Baer Calipers are machined from a solid forged aluminum billet. The only other calipers on the market that are this ridgid are by PFC, Alcon and AP and cost much more.
09-12-2007, 04:18 AM
#5
Safety Car
I'm not sure what compounds are out there for the C6Z, but IMO none of those pads are wearing long enough. XP12's were the worst pad (by far) I've ever used in terms of longevity.
09-12-2007, 03:17 PM
#9
Le Mans Master
I used their pads (RB) with some success, but the bottom line is that no matter what pad company you go with, your not getting more than 1 or 2 events out of a set of front pads.
To compensate, I learned to modify my braking with lighter pedal pressure. So instead of just mashing the brakes like I would with my C5, I apply a medium pressure and back up my zone just slightly. I find that the pads last much longer and you don't sacrafice a lot in performance. So after a year with this car, I learned that if I mash the brake pedal in every corner, you run out of pad fast. Since each paddlet has a piston, if you mash them into the rotor, you just accelerate wear and really don't get better braking.
I am going to try the big brake pad next and see how it goes, but a BBK kit is probably going to pay for itself if you plan to own this car in the long term.
To compensate, I learned to modify my braking with lighter pedal pressure. So instead of just mashing the brakes like I would with my C5, I apply a medium pressure and back up my zone just slightly. I find that the pads last much longer and you don't sacrafice a lot in performance. So after a year with this car, I learned that if I mash the brake pedal in every corner, you run out of pad fast. Since each paddlet has a piston, if you mash them into the rotor, you just accelerate wear and really don't get better braking.
I am going to try the big brake pad next and see how it goes, but a BBK kit is probably going to pay for itself if you plan to own this car in the long term.
09-12-2007, 03:31 PM
#10
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
I used their pads (RB) with some success, but the bottom line is that no matter what pad company you go with, your not getting more than 1 or 2 events out of a set of front pads.
To compensate, I learned to modify my braking with lighter pedal pressure. So instead of just mashing the brakes like I would with my C5, I apply a medium pressure and back up my zone just slightly. I find that the pads last much longer and you don't sacrafice a lot in performance. So after a year with this car, I learned that if I mash the brake pedal in every corner, you run out of pad fast. Since each paddlet has a piston, if you mash them into the rotor, you just accelerate wear and really don't get better braking.
I am going to try the big brake pad next and see how it goes, but a BBK kit is probably going to pay for itself if you plan to own this car in the long term.
To compensate, I learned to modify my braking with lighter pedal pressure. So instead of just mashing the brakes like I would with my C5, I apply a medium pressure and back up my zone just slightly. I find that the pads last much longer and you don't sacrafice a lot in performance. So after a year with this car, I learned that if I mash the brake pedal in every corner, you run out of pad fast. Since each paddlet has a piston, if you mash them into the rotor, you just accelerate wear and really don't get better braking.
I am going to try the big brake pad next and see how it goes, but a BBK kit is probably going to pay for itself if you plan to own this car in the long term.
I did try to do some lighter pedal modulation and it seemed to work. I just need more practice...It's hard to think about lighter pedal modulation though when your pushing a buck sixty into a 45 mph left hander though.
09-12-2007, 04:05 PM
#11
Team Owner
09-12-2007, 08:21 PM
#12
Hey I just thought of something--maybe I can blame my abs failure on him--you know 'cause I was trying (desperately
) to keep him in sight after he passed me during the second session and my brakes crapped out. Seriously folks, he does MOVE out there!!
I really thought the classroom sessions given by that CART test driver were among the best I'd heard at one of those events. You were asking good questions too (and I was pouting because I could not try out some of the techniques he recommended).
(I really need my editor here before I get too long winded
, but I have to tell you all quick about the CART driver's name and a goofy story that goes with it--pay attention John it concerns you LOL)Back at the PCA event in Aug at RA, one of the BMW organizers came by to chat and says, "Guess what, Shields is here!!". Dan and I both turn to each other and I know we're both thinking the same thing--that it's John Shields that's at the event. Well major LOL
It turns out the CART test driver is named Shield Bergstrom. And he was the same classroom instructor at the BMW event this past weekend!Thanks for the brake pad comparisons write-up Gary!!
09-13-2007, 12:22 AM
#13
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
09-13-2007, 12:25 AM
#14
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
09-13-2007, 09:38 AM
#15
Le Mans Master
It is really ashame that after spending $70k on a car, that you have to even deal with issues like this! I didn't feel so bad putting $1500 Wilwoods on a $40k C5, but I am pretty pissed that I have to buy $3k BBK on a $75k car!
GM are you listening?
09-13-2007, 02:28 PM
#17
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
09-13-2007, 10:27 PM
#18
Melting Slicks
You know it really sucks that we can't get some GM Engineers involved in this forum. Especially the ones from the race teams who have input back into the cars design. Not just this C6 Z06 brake issue.
Some in this section are hard core and push the car to its limits. We have T1 racers. Many do DE and/or TT and push hard even if not 10/10ths and we still find some serious issues that could help build a much better car. My C5 Z06 is pretty damn good and I have few complaints. But it sure would be nice to have some of those engineers on here to listen and offer us suggestions and advice based on what they know. I'm sure some information could be shared without them giving away big trade secrets. In the long run it would benefit both sides of the game. After all we ARE customers and we ARE running these cars like they are supposed to be capable of being driven.
It really is a shame.
Some in this section are hard core and push the car to its limits. We have T1 racers. Many do DE and/or TT and push hard even if not 10/10ths and we still find some serious issues that could help build a much better car. My C5 Z06 is pretty damn good and I have few complaints. But it sure would be nice to have some of those engineers on here to listen and offer us suggestions and advice based on what they know. I'm sure some information could be shared without them giving away big trade secrets. In the long run it would benefit both sides of the game. After all we ARE customers and we ARE running these cars like they are supposed to be capable of being driven.
It really is a shame.
09-14-2007, 12:00 AM
#19
Burning Brakes
Member Since: Oct 2004
Location: Naples Florida
Posts: 1,001
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Every GM engineer who races and works at Milford that I spoken with loves the C6 Z06 brakes.
09-14-2007, 01:19 AM
#20
Burning Brakes
Member Since: Jun 2004
Location: Birmingham AL
Posts: 860
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Fred