ltborg

I found some info on building an ASP car but I can't seem to find the specifics I'm looking for so hopefully someone here knows.

First, how does updating/backdating work exactly, specifically I'm interested in if you had a non-Z06 and wanted to update it to a Z06. I know, I know, it would be better to just buy a Z06 but theoretically speaking, how would it work? Could you do parts at a time (example engine/transmission, later the windshield, later the brake ducts, etc)? Could you update a standard coupe or because the Z06 option included engine/tranny, FRC, etc would you have to start with an FRC?

What exactly are the differences between a Z06 and a FRC? The only things I could think of are LS6/Transmission, Wheels/Tires, thinner windshield, exhaust, rear break ducts, and I'm assuming front screens/fog lights. Anything else?

Lastly, do you all think with the 2008 C6 and C6 Z06 that the C5 Z06 can be competitive in this class? Any thoughts on ASP C5s would be appreciated. Thanks

TommyBoy72

Are you talking about regionally or nationally? Regionally, I think any of those would be competitive unless you happen to have a nationally competitive ASP driver/car to worry about. Often well prep'd SS cars give ASP a run for their money in regional competition.

I just moved my car from SS to ASP due to the T1 bars I wanted for track use, as well as the oil cooler I want to install over the winter. In my case ASP is more or less a dead class so I'll move all the way to SM2 as there are a couple other cars there to run with. In SS trim I was already turning times to win either class but lately its more about having fun than trying to win top PAX...and having fun means track setup over autox setup.

LehmanZ06

FYI----

C5Z06 is the car to have in ASP---(other than Porsche GT2, or a elise with a Exige like Supercharger)

Go to SCCA.com, and look at the rule book---probably easiest to start with a C5Z06 rather than a FRC.

PS---I am biased as I have a C5Z06 in ASP

Itchy *****

TedDBere

Last year I ran a stock C5Z in SM2 for ProSolo and finished 8th in the country and the car's owner finished 4th. You can prep it to the max for either ASP or SM2, but your driving will be the biggest factor, especially locally as mentioned. Unless these names sound familiar to you: McKee, Strelnicks, Junior, McGeorge, Hector or Lehman. If you race against them locally I'd suggest switching to a BMW in D-Stock.

If I was going to prep a non Z06 C5 I'd switch to a MN12 tranny first, go right to 17 inch rims all around and put as much tire on as possible. Then the suspension should be stiffened with stronger springs and sway bars, then shocks, IMHO. Save the weight savings till last along with the LS6.

froggy47

ROFL

ltborg

lol, thats good. thanks for all the info guys.

teddbere: you mentioned doing the mn12 first. can you just upgrade part of the car even though you technically couldnt have ordered a c5 with an ls1 and a mn12 (at least as far as i know)?

lehmanz06: i actually just looked at a bunch of the 06-07 results today. i was mainly interested in whether the c5z06s were getting spanked by the c6z06s but it looks like its just who drove the course better that day.

tommyboy72: im talking mainly local but i would like to try and go to some national tour/prosolos next season. im just getting to the point where id like to have the right platform for a autocross car, get it reasonably class prepped, then stop worrying about all that i could be doing to it. asp is appealing because it's works well for autocross and track related mods. also we've got some good local people that run it (none from the list that would send me to ds though). the main reason though is that itd give me a little bit of a better shot in the pax shootouts there are popping up locally more and more frequently. that's what has made me toy with the idea for a while. so im just trying to feel things out and to figure out what will set me up best for the future, assuming my driving skills continue to improve enough for some national competition.

TommyBoy72

I'm not sure on the math between modding a C5Z or a FRC as the absolute final result. I would say along the way, before you prep it to the max, the C5Z should be faster all the way.

I somewhat agree with Ted about the FRC mod order, though I would do the 17" wide tires then sways and go from there.

Honestly though, if you want to do PAX battle, get a C5Z and mod it for SS only if you want to stay in a corvette. I loved my car in this prep for autocross but it just needed more for the track. Otherwise G Stock and FSP have better PAX ringers...

rhneff

If you ever plan to run your car at Divisional or National level, I'd suggest you download the Solo Rules ( http://scca.com/_FileLibrary/File/2007SoloRules.pdf ) and read them carefully before/as you make mods.

WRT update/backdate, those rules state: "Equipment and/or specifications may be exchanged between different years and models of a vehicle if (a) the item is standard on the year/model from which it was taken, and (b) the years/models are listed on the same line of Appendix A (Street Prepared Classes)." Since all C5's are listed on the same line, regardless of year or model, you could start with any year/model and incorporate the items you mentioned. The FRC might be preferrable since it was the lightest other than the Z06, but obviously the easiest/least expensive/best route would be to simply start with a Z06 as others have noted.

Regardless, unlike the Stock rules regarding conversion of option packages, if you start with something other than a Z06 you aren't required to incorporate everything from a Z06 so yes, you can do one or more things at a time and you don't have to do all of them (like windshield, brake ducts, etc.). Keep in mind that engine/transmission/diff swaps must be as whole units (again, read the SR). You're also not allowed to 'alter, modify, machine or otherwise change' a part in order to facilitate the swap, except as an otherwise allowed SP modification (intake, exhause, etc.).

ltborg

yeah that's the one part i understood. thanks for the clarification on the rest of it. i wasnt sure if the scca considered the z06 option one option where everything had to be done at once inorder to make it legal.

i know there are a lot of other classes that have better pax cars than an ss or asp vette. basically im fine with doing ok in a shootout, but im not looking to win, just have fun and maybe give a few of my friends a run for their money. since i also want to go to hpdes and other events, i figure the vette is a good all around option. since ive already got a few parts for it (asp), im that was my thinking on going there. its also just a really fun car in general.

as a side note, why do you all say to run 17s? i thought most people would be running 18s in asp (my current race tires are 17s all around, bought since they are cheaper than 18s, so im very glad to hear it, just a little curious about why).

TedDBere

The 335/30/17 has the same diameter as the 315/35/18 on the rear, giving it a taller sidewall which allows it to flex more and put more power down with a wider tire and more flex. FWIW

TommyBoy72

+1

Then factor in cost.

XPC5R

From my experience, the difference in power down between 17 and 18 is very small with the current A6 and V710 compounds. So don't shy away from them, especially is you are not putting down more than 400 rwhp. 18's are definitely preferred as the 'steer' tire on the front.

I actually prefer the 18's on the rear, and have run 305, 335, and 345's over the years. They do offer a bit more precise control because of the shorter sidewall, which is a benefit at autox. If it was track work, with larger corners and more room to maneuver, 17's could be better.

ltborg

is that suppose to be a 335/35R17? i didnt see a 335/30R17 when i was looking but i could easily have missed it.

TedDBere

Yes it's the 35. I was going off of memory, but the rational is still the same. Danny Popp used to run 18s on the front and 17s on the rear of his championship ASP car, FWIW.

In the end it's whatever you feel makes you faster as well as what really makes you faster. Driver psychology is very important to going fast. Have a plan and execute it, then tweek it as long as your money holds up. Good luck.

ltborg

yeah ive a few cars that run 18f and 17r. makes sense, just a little uncommon i guess.

ltborg

thought of a few more asp questions id like to get confirmed.

can you change the bias spring in the master cylinder?
can you change to any clutch you want?
if you've got a z06, can you remove/change the rear brake ducts?
can you replace the cam bolts with something like the pfadt blocks/shims?
and lastly, could you replace the bearings in the rocker arms with the harland sharp modded bearings? i know on this one, the rules don't allow modifying internals but if your bearings failed and you wanted to ensure they didnt, could you consider that replacement bearings? this might be something that youd have to write to the scca about to get cleared as a non-performance benefit mod or something like that.

gkmccready

http://www.scca.com/_FileLibrary/File/2007SoloRules.pdf

ltborg

yeah i read them and that is why i came up with these questions. i think i know the answers but i just want to make sure i am interpreting the rules correctly. for example, ive seen people mention that the mods in sm2 are mainly drivetrain related so you can do the clutch, drive shaft, etc. but it looks to me that you can do the clutch in sp. i am just trying to make sure i understand things correctly.

rhneff

SR allows use of any single or dual master cylinder or any brake proportioning valve, so I'd say yes.

Not really. You can technically use any clutch/flywheel combination but you're not allowed to change the hydraulics which, on the Corvette due to the design, limits use of some aftermarket/racing clutches that would require a different slave cylinder or position.
No. You're not allowed to modify the bodywork inboard of the vertical plane of the wheel mounting surface.
The cam bolts work in conjunction with the a-arm bushings. The use of offset bushings is allowed, but they must have the same amount of metal relative to non-metallic material and also must be of the same type. IMO that eliminates use of the Pfadt blocks/shims, but that's just my interpretation.
No. There is no allowance in the SR for this.

Solofast

You can mix and match parts to any model listed on the same line. Since the coupe, FRC and convertible don't have the rear ducts, legally you can remove the ducts, so long as the update/backdate to the other models is complete including things like brackets and other things like the holes in the bodywork. I am thinking that you would have to use the rocker panels without the holes in them. The assumption is that the rocker panels with holes in them and the ducts are a "package". You can't just yank out the ducts, since as noted above you can't mod the bodywork inside of the wheel mount plane. But if you wanted to get rid of the ducts you could if you changed to the solid rocker panels.