wtknght1

After having some "minor" surgery today and the subsequent insomnia from the funky pain meds they put me on , I decided to try to examine some things I've read from Scott McKay and a few others I've seen/experienced over the past few years....at 1230 am. I have no life. ha ha

Scott, you mentioned a few things on the other thread (Joe Gaudette's Misfortune) that sounded familiar to me...and I think I can help...before you completely scrap T1.

First, you mentioned burning up lots of brakes/rotors and having a T2 car outrun you down the straight. Next, you mentioned having to replace calipers often, possibly the valve train and maybe even a new engine once a year, spending tons of $$, etc.

Looking at those same characteristics over the years, it all sounds very much like over braking, too late, and over slowing the car...forcing you to think you need to drop to 2d gear all the time, etc, etc. Here's what I mean...and please take this with a grain of salt - it's not an insult, just a simple observation: Next time you get on track, instead of braking at the "4" marker (or whatever your usual spot), try backing off of that 25 or 50 ft. Essentially, try braking a bit sooner so you're in better shape entering the next corner...so you can ensure you hit your apex and come out of the corner better. Be smooth and control the wheel spin.

Russ Snow (Southeast Division T1 pilot) had a similar problem earlier this year at VIR, and after riding with him (at a school) and examining his videos, I convinced him to try this approach. The results: His lap times dropped over 2 seconds as I recall. He was able to trail brake more efficiently, enter the corner with more speed, stay in a higher gear and exit faster. Not to mention his braking was less severe and he was easier on the rest of the equipment. He's still learning this and improving every session!

The only way a T2 car should out-run you down the straight is if: your engine and driveline is only producing about 300-320HP at the rear wheels (not likely), your car has some other severe mechanical issues (possible), or your exit from the preceding corner was poor (most likely). So the next time you're out on track, try those techniques and let me know how it went.

The moral to this is: Just because you CAN brake at a particular spot and still make the corner, doesn't mean you HAVE to brake there. Try backing your marks off 25-50 ft, trail brake cleanly, and exit smoothly avoiding gobs of tire spin. Check your speed (and/or RPMs) at the end of the straight and see what the stopwatch says afterward. Save that 25-50 ft for those times when you try to outbrake someone into the corner and make a pass. And as your overall skills improve, you can brake deeply on virtually every corner, still hit your apexes and exit well. Until then though, the learning curve is steep. Good luck and keep at it!

bobmoore2

I also tried braking slightly earlier and slightly softer about a year ago. It improved my lap times by 2 or 3 seconds, because I began entering the corners faster, but with much more control. And it made the equipment last longer too.

Now the only time I "late brake" is when I'm trying to sneak under someone going into a corner. Or when I get surprised by a novice who is over-braking into a corner.

99BlackZ51

Chris,

I appreciate you staying up at night thinking about my problem (honestly) but I feel I need to shed a little more light on my situation. I had the car on the dyno the end of last year it pulled 360, down 20 hp since the beginning of the year when the motor was new. Worse, it was down 25-30 ft/lbs of torque in the mid range. Tuner could not get any more power out of it and thought the cats were plugged, gutted the cats and it did not help. The first race of this year the car was billowing blue smoke after it sat, compression check looked good so I popped the heads of and brought them in. Valve seals were shot so they fixed that, did a full valve job and replaced the springs, the car did not run much better- if at all but at least it stopped billowing smoke.

Since I did not have the money for a new mill I figured I would work on setup and corner exit speed the rest of the year. I have tried everything I could think of to improve exit speed; later apex, less rear toe in, braking later, braking earlier, even using a little grass at corner exit . I think I am getting through the corners pretty well but RA has some long a$$ straights. The T2 SRT4 that was able to out run me on the straights also smoked every other T2 car there in that category so it was a combination of me being underpowered and he appeared to be overpowered, several other drivers commented on that.

I know what you mean about coming into a corner too hot and blowing your exit, that is something I learned when I was doing HPDEs for Gods sake! After watching Lance I have learned that you can carry a lot of speed into the corner, still maintain control of it and get some great exit speeds. That takes a lot of practise with car control and a very well setup car, I am still working on both but getting better every time. Midwestern Council puts on an hour long race at Blackhawk every October. When I ran that last year I knew that I had to back off a little to get the brakes and fuel to last so I short shifted the straights and broke sooner. Brakes lasted fine but lap times were 3-4 seconds slower and I know short shifting does not hurt that much. Everyone at these tracks goes through brakes, Lance posted a list of brake parts he went through at last years Sprints (with test day);

2 sets front calipers
1 set rear calipers
4 sets front pads
2 sets rear pads
4 sets front rotors
2 sets rear rotors

and said he would have went through more if it had not rained Saturday! The Traceys posted pics of the stack of brakes they went through at the Sprints, they actually buy rotors by the pallet! - no joke! they have spent $10k in brakes so far this year for the 2 cars!

Don't get me wrong Chris I am not a bad driver, I could easily run mid pack in the NE. I just finally came to the conclusion that T1 is not worth the time, money and effort that it takes to run well. Lance appearantly came to the same conclusion since that is why he is leaving, some CenDiv T1ers have talked of other plans for next year as well. T1 maybe all but extinct around here next year!

If you still have time to kill I could send a couple of videos and you can judge for yourself.

Scott

BTW- Watch out for those funky pain meds!

wtknght1

That's cool. Sometimes there are just simply problems that you cannot drive around.

Sure, send the vids...I'd like to see them!!!!!

Chris Ingle
7290 Phillippi Church Rd
Raeford, NC 28376

BuckeyeZ06

Chris,

I had a similar conversation with Reed Kryder this past weekend; he and teamed up with 3 others to run a Mazda in the 24 Hours of Nelson Ledges, so we had time to talk.

One thing he said that coincides with what you wrote is that he always had trouble convincing a driver to brake earlier (but less) to click off a fast qualifying time.

I was at HPT two weekends ago and plained stunk the place up. I think the reason why was because I was trying too hard to make up for my lack of mental focus (bad prior week for the family with the dog leaving us). I was braking LATE and scrubbing off way too much speed.

Good thing about it; I have the "next" time to make good.

Thanks for the discussion...

AU N EGL

That sounds like the problem for most ppl. They brake too late and scrubb too much speed, then cant make a good fast smooth corner.

Great topic

99BlackZ51

I will send you a DVD in the near future.(whenever I get around to making it)

BTW- The past two T1 Champs have reputations as very late brakers.

wtknght1

No offense, but I doubt you're at the level of Mr. Heinricy...(or Lance). And, of course they are late brakers, but they have the ability to both brake late and get the car in good enough shape to still carry speed thru the corners. You too COULD still develop those skills in time, but let's try the crawl, walk, run theory first. Start at 25-50 ft before you normally do and get to the point where you are going thru the corners better and coming out better.

Once you can do that (and beat whatever T2 car is bugging you), then start going a bit deeper under braking. It takes YEARS to develop this...not days...or weeks...or races... YEARS.

Don't give up.

sleeper02Z06

If running midpack in NEDiv is "easy" I must really suck..........

wtknght1

Neither of you guys give yourself enough credit.

99BlackZ51

Joe,
I never said it was easy. I put a lot of time and effort to get to the point where I am, I am just trying to convince Chris that I am not as bad as he obviously thinks I am! Although, because of the size of the fields there is a much wider range of lap times in the NE.

Scott

99BlackZ51

After your last post it sounds like you do not give me much credit. I had hoped you would be able to withhold futher judgements until you saw the video.
You are right, it does take years to master, I think it took Lance less than two!

BTW- The T2 car was only faster than me on the straights.

wtknght1

Come on Scott... quit putting words into my mouth. Never once did I say that you're a bad driver... far from it. Anyone who runs in T1 obviously has talent. But as a general rule, we're talking about 2 seconds per lap (more or less) separating the top drivers from the mid to lower mid pack. A mere 2 seconds.

I took the time to examine what you said about your driving, the car, etc. and was simply suggesting some ideas to help get you part of that way. If you've already made up your mind to get out, so be it. But, if there's a chance you haven't, then just try them and see where it gets you. You have nothing to lose.

I just wish somebody had done that for me when I started off in T1. Hell, I didn't even find out about Phoenix and what they did until 2004. That one trip up there and a couple thousand dollars later got me nearly 3 seconds. It can be done!

JimEli

by any chance does/did the srt-4 belong to Biskup? not surprised if that car pulls you down the straights.

99BlackZ51

How did you know??? Any insight on his surprising speed?

JimEli

Ah ha. You’re not down on hp. Check the trap speeds with this car and do the math. I've seen that car twist apart 2 front rims; phenomenal amount of torque there.