Death at NASA Mid Ohio
08-24-2007, 11:30 AM
#1
Le Mans Master
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Death at NASA Mid Ohio
I'm surprised no one has mentioned this yet. Anybody know the details yet? The way I understand it is, there was a blown motor with oil on the track and a stalled car. M3 driver either ignored flags or didn't see them and slammed into the stalled car. Died on the way to hospital. I'm supposed to get more information tonight.
08-24-2007, 11:47 AM
#2
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I'm surprised no one has mentioned this yet. Anybody know the details yet? The way I understand it is, there was a blown motor with oil on the track and a stalled car. M3 driver either ignored flags or didn't see them and slammed into the stalled car. Died on the way to hospital. I'm supposed to get more information tonight.
08-24-2007, 12:03 PM
#4
Le Mans Master
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08-24-2007, 12:29 PM
#5
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It is a tragedy that we all feel. Our condolences go out to his family.
I have been reading and following the thread on the OH/IN Nasa forum. I am still not sure what or how it happened.
Without speaking poorly of this person, it would be nice to know the details.
I have been reading and following the thread on the OH/IN Nasa forum. I am still not sure what or how it happened.
Without speaking poorly of this person, it would be nice to know the details.
08-24-2007, 12:41 PM
#6
Melting Slicks
This has already been brought to attention on the other Mid-Ohio NASA threads that have been going this week..................
Here is a post to correct misleading information that was posted yesterday on the OH/IN NASA Forum.
.
This is a very sad and unfortunate accident.......and defineatly not something you ever want to see at an event, let alone my first W2W event....
Here is a post to correct misleading information that was posted yesterday on the OH/IN NASA Forum.
I have done my best to correct posts of miss information from around the web. If you know of something I have not found please ask them to edit the post or send me a link and I will.
NASA is the Best, this is the only board that has stay away from pushing for details true or not...... Thanks
Be safe,
Paul Hamm
Description of events-
Larry Collins driving a 944 lost his motor at the kink or about half way down the back straight. Larry went to drivers left as his car was filling with smoke and with limited visibility he felt that there where faster cars on the inside passing him. He went into the wet grass and slowed to a stop beyond the end of the straight. The 944 was in or next to china beach to the far left.
As John Engle in his M3 made his way around the track the starters flag station on the back straight was showing the debris flag, and the next station at the end of the straight was showing a yellow flag. The station at the top of the hill was clear.
John was around 10 sec. in front of the 944 when the engine let go, so it was around a 1:20 later he was making his way down the back straight. As John entered the area he went thought the oil and started to spin. The two cars came together 1:34 sec after the 944 came to a stop, right corner of the 944 to the left A pillar and door area of the M3. The cage on the M3 was pushed in enough that it had trapped John’s legs so that when he tried to get out he could not. The cage was cut away and John could move his feet as he was on his way to the hospital.
At the hospital it was discovered that John was bleeding internally some where in the upper chest cavity from the rate of deceleration at impact.
Larry hurt a muscle in his leg along and has a sore neck but will be fine
NASA is the Best, this is the only board that has stay away from pushing for details true or not...... Thanks
Be safe,
Paul Hamm
Description of events-
Larry Collins driving a 944 lost his motor at the kink or about half way down the back straight. Larry went to drivers left as his car was filling with smoke and with limited visibility he felt that there where faster cars on the inside passing him. He went into the wet grass and slowed to a stop beyond the end of the straight. The 944 was in or next to china beach to the far left.
As John Engle in his M3 made his way around the track the starters flag station on the back straight was showing the debris flag, and the next station at the end of the straight was showing a yellow flag. The station at the top of the hill was clear.
John was around 10 sec. in front of the 944 when the engine let go, so it was around a 1:20 later he was making his way down the back straight. As John entered the area he went thought the oil and started to spin. The two cars came together 1:34 sec after the 944 came to a stop, right corner of the 944 to the left A pillar and door area of the M3. The cage on the M3 was pushed in enough that it had trapped John’s legs so that when he tried to get out he could not. The cage was cut away and John could move his feet as he was on his way to the hospital.
At the hospital it was discovered that John was bleeding internally some where in the upper chest cavity from the rate of deceleration at impact.
Larry hurt a muscle in his leg along and has a sore neck but will be fine
This is a very sad and unfortunate accident.......and defineatly not something you ever want to see at an event, let alone my first W2W event....
08-24-2007, 01:27 PM
#7
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Danny
Thanks for the info.
Again our condolences go out to John Engle's family.
Some once said, you can have the best build cage, the best seat and best harness system. In the event of a sudden stop, your internal body organs still move, even when you are strapped in tight.
Thanks for the info.
Again our condolences go out to John Engle's
family.Some once said, you can have the best build cage, the best seat and best harness system. In the event of a sudden stop, your internal body organs still move, even when you are strapped in tight.
08-24-2007, 07:20 PM
#9
Melting Slicks
Yup, Truly tragic and sad... Word I got was that the 944 was off the course, and that after he sufferd his mechanical that three more laps worth of high speed traffic occured without a single car going off course. No oil, no chemicals on track, just apparently a sad accident.
Mike
Mike
08-24-2007, 08:43 PM
#10
Le Mans Master
Yup, Truly tragic and sad... Word I got was that the 944 was off the course, and that after he sufferd his mechanical that three more laps worth of high speed traffic occured without a single car going off course. No oil, no chemicals on track, just apparently a sad accident.
Mike
Mike
Like with all these incidents, if we are not the track stewards with complete information, reports, videos, etc.; most postings contain some level of misinformation or completely wrong information.
I like to wait until I get to read an official report... and even then I don't think the accuracy rate on those is too good either.
With that said, my prayers go out to John, his family and the driver of the 944. It is horrible for all of them.
08-24-2007, 10:52 PM
#12
Melting Slicks
OK, ok...........this was an unfortunate tragedy, one that I hope never repeats itself.....
Scotty White was there and he is the one that posted on the SCCA T1 forum.......He mentioned that he didn't think that there was oil down, but there was . The gentlemans quote that I copied/pasted was in the particular race, and there was a debris flag supposedly flying from the back straight starters stand. Additionally Bob K told me at the event that there was a big stripe of oil from the kink to the braking zone on the backstraight (he ran the very next run group after the accident). I am sure that this played a role in the accident. Hopefully Lake Erie com., NASA and all other race decision makers far and abroad take note of this incident and take actions to prevent like occurances. While I am sure that they operated race control as safe as they could, I believe if they are presented that situation again that they should through a something more than a debris flag......Oil on the track at the highest speed corner entry on the track presents a real danger. Although this gentleman seems to be the only car that was affected by this , and there were aprox. 50 cars in that run group. Maybe there was some other factors involved. I am sure that other facts will be presented as time procedes.
For now , we should all just lay low and try not to speculate on how/why without knowing for sure. There is a family in grieving, an organization and its members startled, upset and grieving, the Porsche driver I am sure is not emotionally stable either. It is a sad state of affairs for sure and I will not soon forget about any of it. We all just need to try and learn how to avoid these things in the future.
Scotty White was there and he is the one that posted on the SCCA T1 forum.......He mentioned that he didn't think that there was oil down, but there was . The gentlemans quote that I copied/pasted was in the particular race, and there was a debris flag supposedly flying from the back straight starters stand. Additionally Bob K told me at the event that there was a big stripe of oil from the kink to the braking zone on the backstraight (he ran the very next run group after the accident). I am sure that this played a role in the accident. Hopefully Lake Erie com., NASA and all other race decision makers far and abroad take note of this incident and take actions to prevent like occurances. While I am sure that they operated race control as safe as they could, I believe if they are presented that situation again that they should through a something more than a debris flag......Oil on the track at the highest speed corner entry on the track presents a real danger. Although this gentleman seems to be the only car that was affected by this , and there were aprox. 50 cars in that run group. Maybe there was some other factors involved. I am sure that other facts will be presented as time procedes.
For now , we should all just lay low and try not to speculate on how/why without knowing for sure. There is a family in grieving, an organization and its members startled, upset and grieving, the Porsche driver I am sure is not emotionally stable either. It is a sad state of affairs for sure and I will not soon forget about any of it. We all just need to try and learn how to avoid these things in the future.
08-24-2007, 10:54 PM
#13
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Eye witnesses are the worst source of info, I to witnessed the incident and I thought that a few laps had gone by.
It was tragic and I didn't think the Porsche was in harms way.
Godspeed John
It was tragic and I didn't think the Porsche was in harms way.
Godspeed John
08-25-2007, 12:48 AM
#14
Le Mans Master
The information posted was from eye-witnesses who saw it happen at the track... www.sccaforums.com Check the T1 section.
Mike
Mike
http://sccaforums.com/forums/1/260835/ShowThread.aspx
With that said, that makes my point that you get ten witnesses to these events and you get 14 different renditions of the story.
08-25-2007, 08:37 AM
#15
Melting Slicks
I read that forum myself about three times a day. If you go back to that thread there are additional postings that contradict what that witness said.
http://sccaforums.com/forums/1/260835/ShowThread.aspx
With that said, that makes my point that you get ten witnesses to these events and you get 14 different renditions of the story.
http://sccaforums.com/forums/1/260835/ShowThread.aspx
With that said, that makes my point that you get ten witnesses to these events and you get 14 different renditions of the story.
Tragic none the less, and sue me for relaying the story the way I read it...
Mike
