gkull

Are you guys overheating your brakes while out lapping? VB&P is selling a C-5 to C-3 brake conversion kit.

I have the 3 inch air ducting and I have had complete loss of brakes towards the end of 1/2 hour run groups. I was using 500 degree brake fluid and have now installed 600 degree. I just don't have faith in them.

If you guys in LS-7 or highly modded Ls-6 equipped lapping cars are using stock c-5 brakes I will give them a shot. I plan to figure out the air ducting for them also.

Cobra4B

Stock calipers + Carbotech XP12/XP10s (or wilwood H's) + ATE Superblue + cooling and no issues here. Over time the stock calipers can distort w/ real race use and pads can get tapered.

Last C5

What he said.

Aardwolf

I did the C5 to C4 conversion and am very pleased.

gkull

The VB&P comes with Hawk pads. Tell me about these - Carbotech XP12/XP10s

What is the boiling point of this stuff? ATE Superblue I recently went with this $ 40 per quart racing BF

I did not have brake issues until I went all out and installed a 434 SBC

Cobra4B

Which hawk pads? There are various pads that do various things. They make pads comprable to the XP12/XP10 setup. Carbotechs seem to provide excellent stopping power and are easier on rotors than the Wilwood Hs I used to use. They have a tad less initial bite, but that's a good thing in my book as it allows me to be smoother.

ATE superblue has a dry BP of 500+ I think 520ish.

AU N EGL

If these Hawk Pads are HPS or HP+ they are good pads, but the Carbotech XP12 and XP10 are much better track pads, semi street use freindly as well

I use PFC-01s or Wilwood H.

gkull

I will find out which Hawk pads.

I was using the Valvoline synpower 500 degree when I had complete brake failure. I was out running with group 6 cars and had to pitch it sideways before a 90 degree turn going somewhere over 90 mph. i was on my second rotation when I went off into the gravel traps kind of sideways /rear first. I'm glad that I have a lightened car with a very low center of gravity. Some cars have rolled on the same turn.

So I added the air ducting and 600 degree fluid. I was also going to have my calpers machined to include ceramic thermal piston insulators. Then this brand new C-5 -C-3 kit came out for a about $1600.

I need to research C-5 piston sizes compared to what i have already . One advantage right off is C-5 have an inch larger rotor.

My C-3 always tends to lockup one or the other rear tire even at speeds exceeding 140 mph entering turn one at the Reno-fernley track or Thunder Hill california when running the track clockwise

VB&P also sells the conversion kits with just the fronts. Which might be a good option to assist in braking bias for me.

AU N EGL

Brake fluid chart


BRAKE FLUID COMPARISON CHART
Brand Wet Boiling Point Dry Boiling Point

Castrol SRF 518°F 590°F
Motul RBF600 420°F 593°F
Wilwood EXP 600 417°F 626°F
AP-600 410°F 572°F
ATE-Super Blue 392°F 536°F
Valvoline 333°F 513°F
Castrol LMA 311°F 446°F
Ford HD 290°F 550°F
Wilwood 570 284°F 570°F
PFC-Z rated 284°F 550°F
AP-550 284°F 550°F

gkull

yes, I'm using the Wilwood EXP 600 I get the little over a pint bottles for $20 each at the local road racing shop. I also live in a very low humidity area (Neveda) and change the fluid quite often.

I use a ceramic metalic pads and get about two sets of pads before the rotors are gone.

davidfarmer

they will be an improvment, especially with good cooling. Plus they are probably cheaper to maintain than what you have now. Just make sure the master cylinder is properly matched to the C5 calipers, as keeping all 4 wheels working in tandem is essential to no overheating individual axles (ie fronts doing approx 70%, rears doing 30%).

DALE C

I would stick with your C3 brakes add some Carbotech pads Castrol SRF fluid. The big advantage of the C5 brakes is ABS which I doubt you are going to add to the car. The C3 rotors last forever and you dont have caliper spread issues. If anything I would put the money into stainless pistons for the calipers.

Aardwolf

I didn't figure he would be adding the C5 ABS system. What size are the C3 rotors? On my C4 the standard brakes were very small and did not shead heat very well. The C5 rotor is so very much better and is cheap.

ghoffman

I use (and sell) the Wilwood 600, and I have never boiled it even in the C5's with Wilwood H pads on stock calipers (with stainless steel pistons from DRM).

gkull

I have stainless sleeved pistons/good pads/600+ degree fluid/air cooling c-3 rotors are 12 inch c-5 are 13 inch. I need thermal insulated pistons

C-3 rotors lasting forever???? I have a stack of blue - black- brown - worn down and some of them warped with tiny surface cracks. I could probably have some of them resurfaced. I find it much easier to just buy new sets.

69autoXr

I'm not sure I've seen stainless pistons for the C3 brakes; I thought they were all aluminum. I have insulated pistons from VBP, part of their "Extreme Duty" O-ring caliper.

gkull

I'm wrong! Stainless sleeved. This is the kit I bought many rotors ago. i even used those aluminum center rotors. VB&P didn't offer insulated calipers back then.

Manufacturer: Vette Brakes & Products, Inc.

Desc: Complete Stainless Sleeved O-ring Brake Kit with Sport Rotors and Hawk Pads. This Kit includes all 4 rebuilt Stainless Sleeved O-Ring Calipers, All 4 Thermal Treated Sport Rotors, Hawk HPS pads, Stainless Trailing Arm Lines. And SS Braded Flex Hoses, And Pad Pins.

VBP

The brake pads in the system are the Hawk HPS pads. A good street pad. Any parts can be upgraded and substituted. For example, we can upgrade to racing pads or HP Plus pads. We can also upgrade the rear reman calipers to new Delcos, we can add insulators.

We can make a package to fit your desires. Just email me at Pattie@VBandP.com or call me 800-237-9991 and we can discuss just what you need.

Pattie
VBP

DALE C

I guess I should have said they last 3-4 times as long as C5 rotors. I usually get 1-2 track days out of a set of rotors. Dave (car at the top of the page http://www.tachitupmotorsports.com/CustomersCars.htm) gets 1/2 a season out of his C3 rotors. We usually run about the same lap times. I have never heard of him boiling fluid, his C3 is probably the fastest C3 I know of (except for maybe a few tube chassis cars)
There is nothing wrong with the C5 brakes and I in no way want to cost VB&P a sale so go for it and let me know if you want to sell your stock stuff

gkull

In the past I never had brake problems even with my low 500 hp 383. But as my Vette and I both improved more weak links have shown up. With this new 434 ci 600+ hp motor is when the brakes boiled. I have never gone this fast before. My tires are gone in a matter of hours. 10 inch front slicks and 12 inch rear were gone the second day of a two day event. My front KDW's were showing cord in one day and rear Dunlops 315's had flat spotted low tread.

I was trying to put a realistic number on how long rotors last. One track day is generally 4-5 30 minute run groups. In the past I replace the pads after about 4 track days. I looked through my maint. log book and generally after the second set of pads the rotors have gone to the bone stack. 8 ish track days - you are right, could be 1/2 a season