Shark Racer

My C5 is my first stick-shift, so I'm learning with it. I'm practicing heel toe now, but I have a slight problem.

For single gear downshifts, where the rev difference is small, I can pull it off all right. (Slow, but all right.)

When I need to make a larger RPM change though, like a 5-3 downshift, I can't seem to hit the pedal hard enough. My foot is at a sort of 45 degree angle, upper left on the brake, middle right hitting the gas.

I figure I should probably raise the height of the gas pedal to make it easier to blip during a heel-toe, but I was wondering what kind of solutions people went with for this? I know Elite Engineering sells an aftermarket gas pedal that's slightly wider/thicker than stock, there's always the classic "block of wood", but I'd rather do something that seems a bit more thought out.

Any suggestions? Or should I just change my technique?

Thanks!

-Steve (size 12 feet)

63Corvette

Steve, it sounds to me like you are practicing this on the street. You will probably find that on the racetrack, and under real competition conditions, that you will be pushing down MUCH harder on the brake pedal, and thus it will be much closer to the accelerator, and be easier to heel/toe.

elh0102

There are many pedal kits available, but IMO, the best solution, just deal with it. The pedal placements in the C5 are pretty good for most folks, certainly workable with continued practice. I share your big feet, so I can assure, you have plenty of shoe surface to reach. Keep practicing, and it will be second nature before you realize it.

yellow01

That and practice...

Falcon

Try heel/toeing 5 - 4, and then heel/toe 4-3. That's how many of us deal with a double downlshift, which is pretty rare on the tracks I frequent.

Umrswimr

I've never been on a track requiring a double downshift (especially from 5th gear!), so I can't comment too much. However, I do have the EE pedal covers which DO help. They add about 1/2" to the left side of the gas pedal, making it easier to H/T.

Of course, it also makes it much easier to hit the gas AND the brakes at the same time accidentally. Mowed a lawn that way.

Lawdogg

As has been said, you need to hit the brake harder. This will bring your foot to the proper location to blip the gas.

davidfarmer

sounds like you are shifting too early. Wait until the last second (deep in brake zone), and if you've selected the right gear, then the rpm dop will be the same. You don't want to shift so that the engine is pulled up to 7000rpm if your are still braking. Wait until you are just about to jump back on the gas.

As said, practice practice practice.

Bob 33

I'm struggling with H/T myself, so while not an expert, I am an expert on trying to learn. As said above, practice on the street is not much use because the pedals will be in very different positions than during hard braking at the end of a straight. Perhaps you can find a suitable country road to try the most common shift, 4 to 3. But, at lower speeds, you can do 4 to 3, then 3 to 2, then do the cycle over again. A lot is going on during a down shift, including a pending turn, an it's hard to get everything calibrated, doing just the right thing at the right level, at the right time. Too much thinking and everything starts to fall apart. Also, you must be careful to blip only the throttle, not the brake. Blipping the right amount at the right time and shifting before the revs fall is not easy, and contrary to what many on the Forum have said, cannot be praticed usefully on the street. After suffering through a rough year while learning at the track, all has started to fall into place. If you work on H/T you will quickly find yourself much faster and smoother than those who have avoided the enevitable--mastering H/T.

Bob 33

StArrow68

Many local here have found that the brake peddle pressure on the track is much greater as noted above and that will be most of your solution. There is one turn at Thunderhill, 11 that I find I can carry more speed through staying in 4th rather than downshifting and at turn 12 I need to be in second, but as noted, with greater speed I need to really get into the brakes so getting enough gas at that point isn't an issue. As also noted, hard to do on the street unless you are really on your own.
Randy

GTB/ZR-1

Downshift 1 gear @ a time, and when it's all said & done (when you're finally proficient in heel/toeing), you'll be able to do it @ any speed/brake pressure/fast/slow etc...
The C5 pedals are perfectly-placed from the factory for the maneuver for any size foot, if done properly--forget the special pedals.

You'll also be able to execute H/T in any car w/ properly-placed pedals (save 1st gen Vipers, F-bodies or Fox-body mustangs) once you've mastered it.
Porsches & BMWs also have very nicely-spaced pedals.

Keep @ it!

0C5stein

Here is my $0.02. The C5 & C6 Corvettes have excellent Peddle placement for H&T. So just practice. It doesn't matter if you are on the street or track, practice H&T on every down shift. If you can H&T a Datsun 240Z, a 60's or 70's MGB, you can pretty much H&T anything. Newer Corvettes, with stock peddle placement are almost as perfect as they come. Some cars your foot is pretty much straight up and down. Others you use your toes for the gas and your heal for the brake, yet other cars you use your toes of the brake and your heal for the gas. It isn't always comfortable, but if you are matching the revs correctly while getting the car slowed down, then you are doing it right

So what I'm saying is "practice" and have fun with it.

fhturner

"PEDAL" !!!

Sorry, grammar and spelling are pet peeves...

Likewise:
"definitely," not "definately"...
"faster than," not "faster then"
your/you're
their/there/they're

BTW, I should mention that about the pedal placement on C5s being just right for H/T.

gonzalezfj

Thanks for posting the corrections above. They sound like fingernails on a blackboard to me also. You missed one that is seen very often:

"They would have", not "they would of"...

Our school system is not working worth a damn.

wtknght1

Hey, while we're grammar bashing: "heel"

Wicked Weasel

out at Spring Mountain they beat H/T into you each and every day. We were doing it at 60 mph all the way down to 15 mph.

It is not easy at first, but as stated the pedals are almost perfect so you begin to learn how to adjust to fit your foot. My foot is a small 9.5 and I can do it so I expect most people can.

Spring mountain had us break it into 2 3 part segments

1. brake

2. clutch

3. neutral

4. blip gas

5. put in gear

6. release clutch

I found that I was doing braking, clutch and blip at the same time and skipping moving into neutral - just going into the correct gear. After some retraining I see the advantage of neutral because I have a better chance of putting the car in the correct gear.

They also mentioned that if I needed a 5th to 3rd downshift that I should go through 4th first. I guess this makes sense so that I dont go to 1st by mistake, but boy that seems like a lot of time shifting...

gpm30236

4th to 1st is not nice on the engine

ErnieN85

Been reading Carol Smith's book he seems to think that rowing through the gears on the downshift is not needed, just stay in neutral till your slow enough then use the right gear. We shouldn't be using the engine as a brake any how!

jcriner

I too, have been trying to master the "heal & toe" tecnhique. Although I have tried practicing on the street, you definitely hit the brakes harder, and press the brake pedal further to the floor during AutoCross (Solo II) competion than you ever will on the street.

I wear a size 11 shoe, some of you must have really big feet! I find that there's a fair gap, for me at least, between the brake pedal and the accelerator. From what I've read even though its called "heal and toe", you actually do this by braking with ball of your foot only part way on the brake, and by rolling the right side of you foot (not your heal) onto the accelerator in order to blip it while your're braking with the clutch fully depressed at the same time.

Am comtemplating modifying the accelerator so that the top area level with the brake pedal pad extends out closer to the brake, and pehaps raise it up about a 1/2". In the book "Secrets of Solo Racing" by Henry Watts, Part 2. Shifting, Section 11. Heel and Toe, does a good job of describing "Heel and Toe" along with describing the accelerator pedal extension modification. It's also has a lot of other useful information - great read!

Wicked Weasel

You are correct that it is really the ball of your foot. In years past it was truely heel toe because of the distance between the pedals, but now with closer pedals you really dont take Heel Toe literally.

Your foot should have no problem with this. As I stated my foot is only a size 9.5 and with racing shoes on it is real thin. I can easily roll my foot over to the gas and give it a blip to 6K rpms without really trying.

Positioning of the foot is probably the key. The feel of my foot has to close to the brake while I angle the toe of my feet towards the gas. I drive like this normally now so it looks like this / if you looked at my foot placement. with this I can easily lift my foot (I dont rest my foot on the ground for this I heard that is bad) have my big toe hit the brakes and my little toes hit the gas.

If I try to do this with your foot straight on the gas pedal then my foot falls between the gas and the brake (another good reason not to rest your foot on the ground while attempting this you might get your foot locked in there).

anyway try moving the heel of your foot toward the brake more and see if that helps.