NoOne

After pulling my pads off yesterday I saw how bad I tapered them last year. Even the set I bought used was tapered.

Along with the fact that there is the wear disparity between inner and outer pads that seems to be inherent with the stock C5 caliper.

I don't care for the brake feel I get from that, its like having air in the lines.

So what is a good lateral caliper?

I don't want some super wazoo caliper, just something that will perform decent and not have pad wear problems.

I don't want to keep blowing $150 on a set of Z06 pads just to ruin them from taper.

Plus I assume I'd get a better pad selection and cheaper pads.

I have 18's all around.

John Shiels

Wilwoods from LGM is a bargin

95jersey

They work very well. They aren't $5000 Stoptechs, but they are definately better than stock. I think as John had previously stated, they inspire a little more confidence. You are not as worried going into a 140mph threshold braking zones as with the stockers. Pads are also SUPER thick.

Hope you don't have GS track rims:o

yellow01

That's what I did... fan freakin' tastic.

Pads are 10 ft thick (small exaggeration ) but they last forever, relatively, and brake feel is great. Pad changes are a breeze.

I'd love to to the stoptech route, but couldn't afford to buy two new sets of wheels (need 18's all around and need a track/street set).

I strongly recommend the wilwoods. I also strongly recommend cooling if you go willwood and use race pads. The Q type that ships with the wilwood calipers works well for the street, it's what I use but they're no good for track.

NoOne

Cool thanks for the replies.

That is a decent price and I assume the pads are cheaper correct?

Is there a point or advantage to using a larger rotor assuming the C6 sizes come out in cheapo blanks?

I have the stock Z06 cooling ducts for front and rear.

That will probably be my next upgrade.

I have the Black Motorsport wheels...they have seen their fair share of abuse and will probably be regulated to track tires once I can finally get the Black C6R's in 18's.

Thanks again.

yellow01

Pads are not cheap (I forget the exact price) but they last... so per mile they are definitely cheaper.

The LG kit has a caliper bracket for stock c5 rotor sizes... they may have one out for c6 size rotor... not sure. There would be an improvement.

I'm not sure the motorsports fit over the wilwoods without a spacer. Stock z06 wheels do for sure, but I heard aftermarkets did not. I don't know for a fact.

z060ntrack

Lancer033

the 18x9.5s do not fit w/o a spacer. The 17x9.5s might. My theory is that the 18s are built to be used for the coupe/vert on the rear so the offset is different. The 17x9.5s probably have the same offset as the Z front wheels, so I'd bet that they will work.

anyone know the offset for the coupe/vert and Z06 wheels?

Bill Dearborn

I have aftermarket wheels from House of Wheels and the spokes on them are thicker than the stock Z06 spokes. So even with the correct offset they may hit. Will try them this weekend.
Bill

fstvette

Keep in mind you will need new street pads and track pads with the wilwood calipers.

I use the stock calipers with wilwood H's and I don't get tapper, I do rotate the pads after every weekend but I need to take the pads off anyways to put the street pads back on. The front wilwood H pads last around 8 track day weekends and maybe more, but they are HARD on the rotors!

Be sure to get the DRM front brake extensions the stock front brake vents aren't good enough. Also get some DOT 4 brake fluid, I use Motul 600 but there are other alternatives.

NoOne

How do the J's compare to the H's?

The J's I had on the car were tapered, even a very slightly used set of brakes we took off of my buddies GTO were showing taper.

So far I've spent a little over $300 on 2 sets of pads which haven't inspired all that much confidence at the track. The Z06's I tapered worked fine until about 3 sessions in.

The J's never faded but required me to double/triple pump the pedal to get good feel.

Fluid I have ATE Super Blue and I haven't had a problem with fade nor boiling.

So the thing here is, do I spend more money and ruin a set of pads or just spend more and fix it once and for all?

I'm at opposite ends of a problem. My LS1 RX7 was grip limited but had phenomenal brakes with Hawk Blues. Every stop was consistent, pedal travel was the same, zero fade, etc. The C5 has way more grip for my skill level but the brakes just don't give me confidence like the Rx7 did.

I find it very hard for me to be smooth and consistent when the brakes react different each corner.

Sometimes the amount of pedal travel is ridiculous. Coming down the 3/4 mile long straight I need 2-3 pumps to get good feel and to stop, the next corner I'll have good solid pedal and brake way too early, then the next lap I might not have that good feel and having no brake pedal going into a falling hairpin creates quite a pucker factor

I went out and drove with the advanced group and really realized how slow I was. I outrun the novice group and sit around the middle of the intermediate group but the advanced group totally in a different league. I let one of them pass me and followed their line. I could hang with them in the corners following the line but when it came to braking they were braking later, harder, and shorter. I lost so much ground because I had to dink around with the pedal.

There was a Miata out there that held so much speed I couldn't believe it. Faster than the other C5's, M3's, etc out there, a very good momentum driver. I believe I could drive close to the same line but no where near that speed unless I knew the pedal was going to be consistent.

For people who like the C5 caliper, what is your pedal like? I had good luck with my Z06 pads brand new last year until the last few sessions where I tapered them. I was starting to fade them and needed a better compound by the end of the day. It felt nice and solid the way I wanted it to feel until the pads got tapered.

I was told pretty much any compound will eventually taper on this caliper.

AU N EGL

If your pumping your brake peddle 2 and 3 times there may be other problems. Bent Caliper or caliper braket, which would also cause pad tapper. How old are these parts??

Next when was the last time you changed your wheel bearings?? Occatioanlly pumping your brakes is an indication the bearing is going.
additional there maybe a small vacuum leak if your pumping the brake peddle.

My brake peddle is rock solid. 1/4" travel and the brakes are ON.

I have changed to SS pistions, new brakets this past winter, new bearings this past winter. I use Wilwood H pads, Castrol SRF ( I have boilded Super blue a few times so I dont use it).

NoOne

That is the brake feel I am looking for.

The chassis has 77K but most of it has been replaced. The motor is '04 LS1 with about 14K miles. 14K miles ago the car was upgraded to all Z06 parts including the brakes. I doubt the parts were new and most likely came off of a used Z. Assuming that the Z didn't get driven as much I'd put the parts around 40-50k.

I do not have SS lines and the bearings as far as I know are original but seem to be fine.

I'll be putting back on the street pads today so I'll disassemble the entire corner. What cross sections can I check to see if I have something bent?

Where can I verify vacuum in the system? I've asked this question before about cammed cars, do they run into brake problems because vacuum is different from a stock cam?

I do not think anything is bent however, even though I'll doublecheck. When I had the EBC Greens the car came with I never had to pump the pedal and when I put fresh Z06 pads on for my first 3 sessions the brakes were fine, just started to fade them. The 4th session when I pushed harder into the the corner on the straight is when I tapered the pads I believe.

I'd obviously prefer to keep the stockers just from a cost standpoint. This summer is house upgrade, new windows, paint, landscaping, redoing the garage, etc so the less I spend the happier I'll be. The wife agreed and encouraged me to get a hoist this summer too...so its either brakes or the hoist. Plus I'll understand more about the process which is most important to me.

I have the time to do more HPDE's this year but there isn't alot of point if I can't get the brakes set.

Just incase anyone asks the car was bled last year first manually, and then with a Tech II. I did have air in the ABS unit because I would ABS/TCS errors on exteme manuevers, bleeding it with the Tech II fixed it. I have ATE Superblue and I know not everyone agree's on different fluids but this doesn't feel anything like boiled fluid, once I have the pads settled in against the pistons they work well which I would not expect with bad fluid. I can switch to Castrol. I simply switch to Blue so I knew when I had successfully bled the system, but switching back to Castrol would have the same effect now.

Thanks for everyones help and suggestions I'll definitely be checking everything out.

fstvette

I agree you have other issues with the brakes. Mine never feel soft always have plenty of stopping power even with slicks. Now it is hard as heck on the rotors when I run 10/10s but that's the price you pay which is only $30 a rotor.

As far as J's vs H's there is a big difference, they discontinued the J's. The J's are much more prone to taper and the one side wears much faster than the other, I can't remember if it was the inside or the outside more but compared to the H's they suck but they are easier on rotors. Also the J's last 1/2 as long as the H's.

NoOne

Ok...how about this approach?

I'll pull the brakes, measure across the interior area's to make sure they are straight. I'll pull the caliper brackets and verify those are also straight.

If that all works out is there a C5 caliper rebuild kit out there? Is the tapering partly caused by more fluid pressure in one piston versus the other? It would be interesting to check the pressure behind each piston and see if there is a difference. Not hard to do, I have access to all the stuff to do it, we do it all the time at work.

If all that checks out and I can rebuild the caliper then I'll get a set of H's and run then first chance I get and see if I taper them.

I had asked this question before about going to C6 calipers...they are the same but they are stiffer by 30 percent. I got this directly from a brake engineer at GM that they did stiffen then up.

If the caliper is stiffer then wouldn't taper be reduced?

If the H's hold up and there is nothign seriously wrong then I'll be happy. The track is here its really noticeable and its only at the track I'd ever taper a set of pads.

AU N EGL

If the C6 caliper is stiffer, then get the C6 calipers and put in SS pistions.

if there are 40-50 K miles on time to get new no matter how they have been driven. same with the bearings, time for new. Doing 10-12 or more weekends a year on the track parts need to be replaced.

Whoaaa I am reading this right??

Brake fluid MUST BE CHANGED before ( the weekend before) EACH TRACK WEEKEND, not once a year. Or did I mis read something???

ATE is only good for one weekend then it must be changed with a full flush and full flush again to be used on the street. That is two full flushes per track weekend. Not just ATE but any brake fluid expect SRF and Wilwood 600.

If this is the case that the brake fluid has not been flused then that is most likely the cause of the soft peddle.

NoOne

Barring the C6 caliper, isn't there a rebuilt kit for the C5?

AU N EGL

Yes there is about $20-25 for the rubber seals.

ErnieN85

One thing that hasn't been asked (i think) do you have DRM brake ducts? It takes a lot of heat to soften the calipers and allow them to spread, sounds like multiple problems to me.

NoOne

No I just have the GM Z06 ducts in the front and rear.