TicketBait

I went to the last Corvette Track Days had a blast and stayed on the track

It was the 3.5 mile track with over 20 turns. After the tires heated up it was fun sliding/ squeeling around the turns. I did this with All the traction constraints available. Each time out I improved on my time as I was learning the apex and what the car could do, Like everything (I am the only weak link)

I don't think I am a heavy braker. I only got up to 115 mph going in to turn 8.They got to me in the morning class about upsetting the physics/ geometry of the car when you brake and down shift

I had an advanced driver give me pointers as we went around the track. Also rode with an instructor too

One question that never came up is do I run with the Ah Off?
Am I taking more of a risk leaving the track.(something I don't want to do) And if so ,How do I change my driving technique to compensate?
I know thats alot to ask.

I did a search and only found only one post where the person said that in competitive mode he wore out his rear brake pads



Hoping to make it at Big Willow on Wednesday May 3rd . Welcome all advice
Pictures always add to a story

I will be doing the school at springmountain later this year!

yellow01

You will get alot of different answers, all I can do is share my opionion.

I left it on for the first 4-5 weekends (can't remember exactly). Then it started getting in the way.

My simple opinion is that early, it allows a person to push limits and find them without completely loosing it - as long as you pay attention to when it comes on, and understand why it came on.

Then, over time, as the person gets better, two things can happen. It can be used as a crutch, or it can get in the way. When it starts getting in the way you may find that AH will quickly dispense with one or two of your rear brake pads.

So, that said, I personally now run with it off. I can feel the edge better now than when I was new, and I'm to the point where I want to try learning some things intentionally, rotating the car etc. AH was in the way, and at some times unsettling.

I do not regret leaving it on the first season... it was a good safety net until I really learned the car, and could feel the edge. I will still sometimes leave it on the first session of a weekend when I'm warming up a bit... mistakes are more common that first session, and afterall this is my $50k street car that I don't really want to wreck.

Just my personal opinions.

StArrow68

Just the minority opinion here but I would leave the system on, at least in Comp Mode. Depends on your goals so I'll tell you mine and why I run with the system. I'm biased, let's get that out of the way first. I work(ed) for the company that makes the gyro that measures yaw in the system and so is a key component in measuring spin. I came at it from learning how to drive with the system on and it is different from driving with it off.
Given all of that, I think I've shown that you can get to about 95% with the system on and not eat brakes and tires, but it takes some work. If you upset the car the system will intervene big time, you don't want that, either from the view that it is expensive or from the view that you are not going as fast as is safe with the car upset. Most all race trained drivers will correct with minor steering inputs as they corner, AH doesn't like that, it thinks you are unsure. You have to get comfortable with the line to the point where you can turn the steering wheel once to the point you want to arrive at the apex and then back off slowly as you unwind to track out. Makes it kind of work hitting your points precisely and when you don't the system lets you know. The smoother you drive the less the system will intervene and that even applies to how hard it engages. The system still comes on when I drive hard but it is so light that it doesn't eat brakes or tires. But getting to that point has taken 3 years and not only track days but driving classes at both Sp. Mt. and Sears Point with Russell in open wheel cars having no system.

So, what is the goal? Just having fun and don't want a mistake to be fatal to the car, the system is there for that. Want to become a race car driver with a goal to get every last tenth out of lap times, turn it off and work up very slowly getting good instruction on technique and theory in addition to seat time. As was pointed out by the leaders of the NASA group 3 sessions at Sears Point this past weekend, even my 350hp coupe was a race car that pro drivers would have killed for about 15 years ago. The new Z is a race car that many pro drivers would have trouble handling today.

I think the majority of track regulars will say turn it off, good for them, but I've seen just a few too many Z06's into walls lately to agree.
Randy

NoOne

I put mine in competition mode too.

I feel it lets you learn the limit of the car better.

If you leave it in normal it'll kill your throttle in corners. In competition mode it as least lets you get some wheel spin so now you can gauge how far you can go to see if it comes on. Take the corners a little different and see which situations cause you to get into the AH and others that don't.

There is a difference between it being intrusive and being neccessary

The main track we goto, Grattan, has a few tricky dips through some very high speed corners. I've seen drivers far far more experienced than me lose it in those dips. It gives that added safety to allow me to push the car harder than if it wasn't there at all.

The last thing you want to do is put your nice new 70K car in the weeds. You'll know as you get more experience when its time to turn it off.

freefall

After a half dozen events in competitive, I have started turning it off part of the time. Previously, there were corners where I thought I felt it kicking in when accelerating out but was not sure, and turning it off has shown me that I still had more room to throttle. One note - the corners I'm trying this in are fairly friendly (i.e. runoff room).

Lancer033

personal opinion: it depends

1: the track - is there much run-off room, or are there walls right at the edge waiting to bite you
2: your wallet - are you willing/able to bite the bullet on the repair cost of hitting those walls
3: your goals - out to have a little fun and learn how to be a better driver, or do you see yourself as the next (insert your favorite pro driver here)

Some times I leave mine on, sometimes it's off, sometimes. It all depends on the track, the weather, my mood and sometimes just a gut feeling. If you do have it on, think of it like a safety net instead of a crutch. What I mean by that is know it's there to help you if you mess up, but don't rely on it to get you around the track. If it's coming on in every turn, chances are you are not driving smooth and should back off a bit and drive the course smoother. On the other hand, nothing says "don't do that again" like sliding out of control. Lessons learned that way tend to stick a lot better. Eventually, you will get to the point where the system can't keep up with you and at that point, you'll have to turn it off to go any faster.

AU N EGL

I ran my first 10-12 schools with t/c and A/H on. Nice smooth fast lines.

If you can run smooth lines your tires will not make much noise which is good. Vettes have soo much tq that squeeling tires around corners may actully slow you down as you are turning TOO sharply, or not allowing the cars weight to transition from one side of the car to the other. Smooth lines, slow into the corner means fast out of the corner.

Trail braking is an adcance skill, which still vettes dont need much of.

Be smooth and your be fast.

elh0102

One of the best instructors I have had is an individual who races a Vette in SCCA T1, plus a spec Ford racer. He is successful in both, and is a very good driver. In addition to his T1 Vette, he has a stock ZO6 street car that he drives when instructing. In that car, he never shuts off anything; turn the key and go. Obviously, it's not that he is afraid of it, and he is very agreeable for his student to drive in any mode he/she desires. Even at his driving level, he believes that a stock ZO6, on street tires, offers a better learning experience when driven with AH and TC on. I have about decided to believe him! Assuming good street tires that offer grip, these cars handle at a very high limit, and there is not a lot of margin left after AH activates. When you get to the point of knowing when you are going to get in it, and understand why it has come on at each occurance, you are learning a lot about how to drive smoothly. There are folks who are comfortable driving at large slip angles, and enjoy sliding around the track. And if you enjoy that style, you will have to shut it off. But, unless you are very, very good at it, you won't be faster. And, it can place you at a disadvantage if you have to deal with something unexpected. Here I am talking like a good driver, and I'm not, but after driving in all configurations of TC and AH, I see no advantage (for me) in turning it off, and I still believe I am learning from it. I should add, my experience is road course driving, and I'm sure the demands of auto-x are very different.

wtknght1

Those devices teach very, very bad habits that are hard to break. I always suggest to my students to turn them off. It's a school and you're there to learn. I know what the car can do - I want to see what the student can do. If you begin driving with all that stuff on, you tend to learn those bad habits early and it sticks with you. If you start with everything off and learn to drive the car properly, you'll be much, much smoother and faster in the long run!

If all you want to do is just go out on track and slog around for a few laps and say you did it, then leave everything on and enjoy yourself. But, if you think you may be serious about this and really want to learn, then hit the button off and become a real DRIVER that's not dependent on CYA modes.

injuner

My first session out at a HPDE I left it in competition mode. I was more concerned with trying to figure out the track than anything else. During my second session, I could already feel the active handling stepping in on me, I could feel it kicking on going over some bumps and applying the brakes for me. My instructor advised me to turn it off as mentioned before, as he didn't think it was teaching good habits. You can get away with a lot more with the car in competition mode, but it can teach bad habits. I leave everything on on the street, but at the track I have no help. I do know that my last spin would have been saved with active handling, but then I would not of learned my lesson about percise throttle control coming out of a corner.

Bill Dearborn

Since I started doing track events before such things as AH I cannot say whether or not you will learn bad habits. If you find your rear brake pads are wearing faster than they should it means you are understeering in the turns and the rear brakes are being applied to yaw the car in the direction you want it to go. A lot of times this interuption is not all that noticeable when you are going through a turn like the bus stop at Watkins Glen.

Other times when you have done nothing wrong it can be a downright life saver. I have a bueatiful video taken from my car while I was following another instructor around the off camber left at Watkins Glen. We are both on the throttle about the same amount and I am close to following in his exact tracks. All of a sudden the car yawed toward the left and then yawed immediately back before I could react. Not sure what happened but in 12 years of driving that track that is the only time the back end of a car has slid on me in that turn. I suspect that one of the rear wheels ran across something spilled by a car in front of me however will never know since on the next lap there was no sign of any fluids on the track.

Bill

rbl

And he also told me that it matters not what the setting is so long as you have smooth inputs. That is the only issue involved.

ACAR

When I first took the Vette to my home track (Summit Point) I used both. As I got faster I went to competitive mode, then later all off. A year later after hundreds of laps I forgot to turn it off one day and only noticed that it was on during my cool down lap. I had gotten smooth enough at this track to run at the limit and yet never have it engage once during a 25 minute session. I run with it on all the time now, with the goal of a) being fast and b) being smooth enough that it never comes on.

I don't think I am learning any bad habits.

StArrow68

Interesting thing about absolutes, they will only apply in some cases. I'm a very rec level Volleyball player and have been for over 40 years, not a natural athlete but able to learn and repeat. The variation in driver capabilities from those that get in a Vette and can drive it smoothly and those that can drive it for years without learning the same level of skill is the audience here. What works for some may be bad input for many. If driving without AH is good because it didn't exist before, then eliminating ABS should also be good, why not power steering? If the case is that any individual can be good without it then I'd agree, problem is, there are probably more that won't get good than those that will. JMHO
Randy

Dirty Howie

I run in Comp mode, but I may be trying AH off soon.

Something is slowing me down ........


DH

varkwso

Depends on comfort level, experience and driving style. I normally run with it off, now. I always run with it off in the 1999 car (very, very intrusive) - heck it may be out of whack after 120,000 miles.

On some track I never know AH is on in the ZO6. At CMP if you can drive that faster than me without it activating - I need to ride with you. That was the track that I turned it off for the first time.

I rode with StArrow68 last Sat at Sears Pt and he runs with it on. Quite passionate about it also. I did notice the AH script on the DIC quite a bit during the session but only felt it a few times.

If it is wet I often run with it in Comp mode in the ZO6....but not always...

jeff

yellow01

One of the reasons I don't like AH is one of the tracks here. The main straight is the front part of a banked speedway oval. I don't know the banking, but you come down from the bank onto the flat at ~120. Again, I don't know the incline, but its a damn hard hit (like a hard airplane landing best I can describe).

Almost every time I got AH kicking in coming off there. the bank to flat transition was shaky enough, let alone one wheel doing it's own thing so I turned it off.

Now, to be honest, it means on the front part of the straight, when going flat to bank with that nice wall staring at me, I'm a little gentler on the gas, so I just adjust.

StArrow68

I did notice that myself when you pointed it out on Sat. as I ran on Sunday. The biggest difference now is that when I first started on track and I was trying to enter corners hard the slightest bit of braking when the wheel was turned would result in the brake peddle pulling away from my foot toward the floor, very noticeable. With impacts that were easy to tell on pads and tires. Glad to say that the teachers I've had got me away from that. But, if you don't want to see it come on you have to just push enough after a smooth entry to have it decide that you are in control and it goes away quickly, I think.

From my POV, it's like my daughter, that hated it when I forced her to drive my Nissan stick shift after she already had a licence on our auto wagon. A few years later when she got her own Stang GT 5 speed she was thanking me for making her "work" at learning it. AH takes work to get it right, for some the work is going to be worth the result, for others it won't. Have a nice day all.

And you are right, it's fairly easy to be passionate when 6+ Million Gyros in a year got you a fairly good retirement, day after tomorrow! Now I just need to find a job in Motorsports for the next few years until the wife decides to hang it up. Then I may see you at some of those other track around the country.

Randy

TrueBlueCoupe

I started doing HPDEs with a 98 WS6 Firebird, no traction control or AH. I was very comfortable with excessive oversteer. When I got the Corvette I never turned it on because I felt the same as Chris mentions above( plus going from an F body to a C5 is a big handling improvement even without the AH) I like the feel of the car and do not turn it on at all. The one time I left it on it was a mistake and I ended up in the grass when the car tried to save me from a little oversteer. Once the AH upset the car it was all over. My last event was the most fun yet and I have really felt connected to the car, and can feel it get squirly(sp) in the corners and either modulate the throttle or adjust my steering input to compensate.

yellow c5r vette

Could one of you take a sec and explain how to get into "comp mode".
Am new to your forum but have been running a 88 c4 road raceing in Canada for 4 yrs. Have just built up a 98 C5R "clone" but have lost the info.
Perhaps AN U AGL? if you have time I've read some info from you as well.
Cheers. Greg