VegasJen

so i'm tired of beating up my old '81, and it doesn't like it much either. so i'm trying to figure out what my options are.
here's the criteria:
1) it will be a track only car.
2) needs to be relatively inexpensive to put on the track.
regarding #1, i won't have to worry about licensing it, or having headlights, windows, etc.
#2 is always the hardest one but the question is, do i throw a pile of money into a cheap production car to make it go fast *OR* do i throw a pile of money into a ready to race DSP or CSP or formula ford/mazda?
either way, by the time the car is done, i think the investment will end up being about the same. the difference is if i find a 10-15 year old sport racer, the performance level out of the box will be infinately better than all but a full fledged trans am production car.
i am considering trying to find an early c4 (maybe salvage title?) to gut. if i could find one, the out of the box performance will be better than what i'm used to and the potential is obviously there, but i'm also going to have to throw boatloads of money at it to make it really fast.
a club racer will be really fast from the start, but the cost to get in it will reflect.
so WWCFD?

69autoXr

Whatever you do, buy something that is already built (cage, etc). It will be cheaper down the road. At the minimum buy a roller and put your own engine & trans in it. But the more it is built when you get it the cheaper it will be for you in the long run.

BrianCunningham

You need to find out what you like to drive on the track.


ie) a GT1 car and a Formula Atlantic typically have the same times on the track. But one does it by screaming down the front straights, and other other does it by taking corners fast with the throttle buried to the floorboard the whole way around the track.


Racing or track day?
Regional races or national?

If you like a kick you in the pants V8, then a sportsracer may not be for you. For about the same price you can get an old BUCSH car...now that's a whole different animal.

You can also run a Vette in www.tccracing.com/

redvetracr

Can you afford a full fledged T/A or GT-1 car?? and the maintainence thats comes with?? and the truck & trailer?? If your ready to step up to "wheel to wheel racing" vintage is a great place to race, I`m having boat loads of fun and best of all it`s still a Corvette and a regular old Chevy motor (easy maintainence). And if your lucky enough to find a car with "history" you might actually get your money back out of it when you move on to something else.
...redvetracr

PS: NOT the car below but I have a killer 69 Corvette ex SCCA A/P roller available if you or anyone is serious....

VegasJen

it needs to be on a budget since this only to support my habit, no competition plans.
brian, i'm more of a lateral g kind of guy. of course i like the punch out of a turn but the whole reason i go to a road track rather than the drag strip is for that "HOLY $#!t" feeling going into a corner really hot and having the car stick.
and what i'm thinking of is an older car that's no longer competitive in trophy races, like a 10-15 year old CSP or DSP car.

63Corvette

1) Spec Miata
2) Spec Racer (Formula Mazda, Radical etc?)
3) Vintage That's where I am, and as Redvetracr said above, if you're lucky you can race for free or even make money on resale.

MrEracer

I've been building and road racing salvage title C5's for about 5 years. This is a great way to start with a high tech low budget track car. Many of my cars are being raced in the Phoenix, AZ area. You can get into something like this with a new LS2 engine and race brakes for about 20K... Check our web site at <redracervette.com> to see my road race C5 and our Corvette Racing series.. You might want to come down from Vegas and race with us... We will be at Spring Mountain in the fall...
Shirl Dickey

ScaryFast

There's an awesome C4 chassis in the FS section, by C4racer.

It's ready to race (gutted, cage, wiring, fire system, etc) and immaculate for $9,000. You can put any motor in it, 350 carb'd, LT1, LS1, whatever you like, and have a monster for under $15,000. It's legal for a few classes.

I'd consider it but it's in California and I'm in Detroit

Jeffvette

It's sold.

95jersey

I pondered this many times and came to a clear decision. I work many hours, have a family, and a house to maintain. I simply do not have the time to work and fix a track car, but I still want to drive?

If I buy a sports racer, outside the clear saftey issues of these vehicles, I would have to maintain and work on it myself and eat any costs for breaking parts and or engine rebuilds, which many of these need every season at a heafty price,

or....

I can buy a stock production car UNDER WARRANTY, beat the living H out of it, and let the dealer fix anything that breaks. Spend less time under the hood and more time in the driver seat. Also, you are in a car engineered to take impacts, airbags, crumple zones, it can be INSURED, and any 1 of a thousands dealers can fix it quickly.

At least if I trashed the vette, I could recoup my losses and get into another car. If I trash the sport racer, that is the end of my track days for LONG time.

VegasJen

i've been really considering options 1 and 2. there was an ad in the paper for a spec miata a while back, for cheap. should have jumped on it.
the only concern about option 2 is like what 95jersey mentioned. it's still far cheaper than a car note for a real car just to go beat it up on the track. now, if i could find a salvage title S2k, i think that would be a premo option.
i do have an old datsun Z that i've been planning to make into a dedicated track car. it would be cheap, say >$2000, just to get it running. but it would be undoubtedly even slower than the '81. plus, by the time i got it fully sorted and as fast as i would like it, i'm into it for about the same as a used spec racer.
i think a running but ragged out c4 would be a better starting point. gut the thing, put in a basic roll bar (for now) and some stickies and i'm already worlds better than the '81. and it would take the same amount of money to make the datsun that fast.
still, there's a huge difference between a street car turn track car and a real track car.
decisions, decisions

rbl

My $.02. I did the Corvettes and loved it but now that I bought the SRF I won't drive the Corvette. It is a great little car, cheap to run and if not broken I can resell for about what I have in it. Easy to repair as well. Since I am only doing DE's this is the ultimate for me and I'm working on getting a junk yard engine so I can get a little more hp. It is quite a bit quicker than the Miatas also. $16-18K for a good car ready to go and it will run a LONG time before needing anything other than setup. Tires and brakes last forever and 10 gallons of fuel (87) will get you 4 hrs. plus of track time!

With a good driver (not me) it keeps up with most of the high Hp cars.

When all 105 horses kick in it runs 2:16 at VIR- Full. The slow ones run 2:19. (I'm heavy so I need more time :o ) A quick Z06 will run 2:10 - 2:12

At CMP Tray ran 1:49.99 and the 10th place car (Paul) ran 1:51.77. A Tight field .... Vettes are "generally" (just added this word) slower.

95jersey

When I retire the vette, I have considered leasing a brand new car (350Z, Mazda RX8, Miata, whatever), something cheap, but competent for the track. Simply buy a set of rims, and R tires, and brake pads and run with it. Leave it stock, beat the living H out of it for 2 years at minimum cost and sell the rims on e-bay when your done.

I have seen ads for $1500 down and under $189 month for an RX8 (WOW). So, it doesn't have the power...it will make you a better driver. Plus, if anything breaks, it goes back to the dealer and you can drive it on the street as your daily with minimal or NO wrench time.

I guarantee this option will be faster on the track (than an older fixer upper car), cheaper overall, and will allow you to spend more time driving and less time wrenching.

Basically your renting a track car for 2 years... "arrive and drive".

I personally will never build or waste money turning a Corvette into a track car ever again. Been there, done that, have the t-shirt.

turtlevette

you really think manufacturers are going to warranty cars used for racing and insurance companies are going to pay off after you roll the thing (unless you have track insurance).

you might get away with it once.

John Shiels

He has been lucky so far but it will probably end as companies look to contain cost in a very competitive market.

varkwso

Uh, I do not think ZO6s at CMP are slower than 1:49.99 or at least not all of them....check out NASA time trial TTA lap times at CMP...

rbl

I was talking "generally" and I exclude myself from that :o ... point was that the 1- 10 place SRF cars are running 2 seconds apart and it is a good quick little car. There may very well be a quicker Vette but generally they are not at CMP. 400 hP v. 105 hp. w/less than 2:1 weight difference was the other point, brake life another and tire life another. Primary was the cost of the vehicle or bang for the buck for a track car.

Could not find any Vettes for the NASA TTA results ... maybe post the top 10 Vettes at CMP for us?

Top finishers I found at CMP w/NASA and no Vettes at all:

GTS3 2 911 Carrera Cup Edition 01:50.336
VVC 4 Viper 01:47.89
Honda Chal Civic Si 01:50.389

95jersey

I am talking about HPDE's, and yes I have been doing this for 4 years now. Please tell me how Nissan would figure out I am doing HPDE's with their car if I leave it stock?

And as far as insurance...90% of us all have street insurance anyway, so nothing new there.

rbl

Problem may be that, as others have mentioned, the new policies out from the majors are excluding HPDE events from coverage with the new language in their contracts. Better have a look at yours to be sure.

NewC6Toy

If I were to get a dedicated track car, the idea of a used Busch car or NASCAR truck is pretty appealing. I run events at Watkins Glen and there are several guys that bought race trucks with wheels and spares for about $10k. The good trucks with the good drivers are some of the fastest things out there. Obviously no street car touches them in terms of tire to weight ratio and no spec racer touches them in terms of hp to weight ratio.

They aren't very pretty, they are loud, but man are they fast.