fhturner

Hey guys & gals--

Well, I've scoured all over this great site and have found a little bit of worthwhile info about this subject, but not a lot. As the title says, I'm wondering about picking up a flood Z06 for dirt cheap and making it into a track-only car.

Most of the replies regarding flood-damaged Vettes on the Forum basically amount to screaming "run away" at the top of one's lungs. However, I think most everybody saying this is considering attempting to bring the flood car as close to "new" condition as possible. What I'm talking about is stripping it, putting a cage in it, and making a good track car out of it.

Can any of you comment on the ins and outs of doing this? Obviously, electrical components would be a concern, but how much can be disregarded, and how expensive would it be to replace the essential stuff? What other concerns are there? Would you recommend doing this, given the potential cost savings?

Thanks!
Fred

freefall

The real concern is the electronics - basically, what fried when everything shorted out. I have no clue how much all the computers would cost to replace but would guess $5k+ minimum.

CHJ In Virginia

A flood car could be an excellent starting point for a track car, especially if you can buy it right. Many of the items that would cause trouble from water exposure in a daily driver will be gone in the strip out of the car. I personally would junk the computers and contact one of several salvage yards that deal exclusively in Vettes and buy replacements. If you can get the wiring harnesses with the computers so much the better. The connectors are the points that will give you the most corrosion grief. Total disassembly and cleaning of all mechanicals will be required if the car was totally under water. Good Luck.

AU N EGL

Many race cars are flood recovery cars. just not salt water flood.

strip out the electrical and replace, strip out all the usless weight items while your at it.

take evey thing off down to the frame and re-align the frame. Most factory specs are not very straight. +/- 1/8" for the vette that is a 1/4" variation, too much. and some ppl wonder why they can not align their car very well. But it is with in factory specs.

Scooter70

There's a guy on the GTO board who is doing this. He just figured out why the motor wouldn't turn over... the clutch was rusted to the flywheel. Once he got the tranny out, the motor would at least roate.

If you're going to strip it down and make sure that everything works, I say do it.

0Randy@DRM

Take out the computers and crap. You can buy a aftermarket engine harness and make your own body harness. No TC, ABS, or anything else. Then put some Autometer gauges in and go. Track only car doesn't need AC, power seats, HUD, and all the other crap.
Buying a flood car is what I am looking at doing.

Randy

fhturner

Thanks for the rapid replies! I hope this thread will be a good resource for people looking to do what I am in the future.

In your opinion, what would "buying it right" mean? $2500, $5K, $10K...?
What do you think would be a fair price for replacement computers?
Can you elaborate on the "total disassembly"?

What about Katrina victims? Kind of a mixture (fresh & salt) there, I would guess... I think frame re-alignment is getting "beyond the scope" of what I'm intending to do. At first, I just want a cheap, track car that I can gradually build into a racecar. Most of the stock stuff will be okay at first. Except a cage, seats, and suspension, of course!

Again, not full-out racecar for me (yet); although everything you say makes sense for those purposes. HUD & AC would be nice to still have; AC mainly for when you're sitting at Pit Out waiting in the summer heat during an extended delay. Also, I think I would like to have Active Handling and ABS still...

Thanks for the great discussion,
Fred

BrianCunningham

Just make sure you take it down to a 'body in white' state and throw out anything that could harbor germs, rugs, insulation, head liner, seat padding, etc.


Acid dipping, which is what most recovered flood cars turned race cars so, doesn't quite work well on a Vette

63Corvette

I STRONGLY disagree! If you want to race, BUY a fully set up and competitive RACE car! Be sure that you get all of the "set up" information for each track the car has run. Buy tires and you're good to go except for routine maintenance.
Remember, you buy a race car to RACE.....not to work on.

seege

There are more Z06 racecars than racers now, buy one and go to the track, or spend all your time and money building one. It's really a no- brainer to me.

fhturner

Good point. But, I'm first and foremost looking for a REALLY CHEAP way to have a dedicated Z06 track car, so that I don't have to: (1) do the brake pad/rotor/tire/wheel shuffle every time I want to go to the track, (2) screw with putting a more supportive, but less streetable racing seat into my street Vette, and (3) worry (as much) about wear and tear from the track on a prisitine street car. Doesn't have to be a full-blown racecar at this point...

Jeffvette

I think Freds main intent is to get a car that he can thrash cheaply. If he can pick up a flood damage car for cheap, he can buy the cage and start working up from there.

Tearing down a perfectly good car and gutting it just doesn't make sense. Most T1 prepped race cars are 35k plus.

95jersey

Cheap = Expensive.

Solofast

Question

Can the water in a flood car get into the floorboards, or are they hermetically sealed? If that balsa gets wet it is a disaster. If it is dry then all of the above plus and minus are still valid, but having a bunch of water in the core of the floorboards would just about rule it out, since when it gets really hot the water is going to cause the floorboards to delaminate and make things a mess... Anybody know???

fmrfast

It is cheaper to buy a race car then to build one as you go building a flood car or any car the expenses snow ball.
If you go the route of the flood car be careful. Major manufacturers have passed this info on to the dealers:

PERSONAL SAFETY
Health Alert Issued Over
Hurricane Zone Vehicles

MISSOURI CITY, TX (Feb. 23, 2006) - Heavy metal can kill you - especially if it's attached to a contaminated car. Technicians should take heed of a nationwide alert issued to emergency personnel emphasizing the risk of fatally infected cuts inflicted by "flood cars" from the Hurricane Zone.

A Mississippi firefighter recently died from septic shock contracted through a slightly scratched finger suffered while extricating a victim from a crashed car.

"The warning needs to go out to the automotive industry because of all of the vehicles that were contaminated in the New Orleans area that are now spread across the country," says Todd Hoffman, executive director of Scene of the Accident Inc., based in Missouri City, TX.

The floodwaters that inundated The Big Easy tested at 50 times above the danger level for this type of toxin, which enters the bloodstream. Called sepsis, it spreads rapidly from just the tiniest break in the skin. It is indeed deadly and can be carried by a car in your bays.

The illness [sepsis]
is frequently under-diagnosed because it has symptoms similar to a multitude of other ailments.

"The government is crushing all of the vehicles, so-they-say, but any vehicle looked at prior to Dec. 6 [2005] was sent to auction," says Hoffman. "The vehicles that the owners were allowed to retain are all over the country, and all of the uninsured vehicles are for sale everywhere."

Technicians need to wear gloves and otherwise protect themselves at all times, he urges, calling for "long sleeve shirts, long pants, gloves and safety shoes - not shorts, tank tops and tennis shoes."

If an employee gets a cut or even the smallest scratch, the wound needs to be immediately disinfected and a bandage applied, Hoffman advises.

"Soap and water will not kill the bacteria," he points out. "It will take a strong antiseptic cleaner. [Shops] need to consider adding a disinfectant to their wash water when a contaminated car is suspected."

If there is redness or swelling, or a rash or back pain, you should "get to the doctor and demand a blood test." The illness is frequently under-diagnosed because it has symptoms similar to a multitude of other ailments.

Sepsis can develop quickly. The sooner it is diagnosed and treated, the better.

The Mississippi firefighter died six days after receiving a "tiny cut" from the wrecked car. "The doctor did not do a blood test because it is something that is not commonly done in these cases," Hoffman explains.

Every minute, more than two people die from severe sepsis in the United States, according to Dr. Jean-Louis Vincent of the Society of Critical Care Medicine. It is the leading cause of death in hospital intensive care units and claims "more lives than breast, colon/rectal, pancreatic and prostate cancer combined. And, the numbers are getting worse," says Vincent. "When someone dies of 'complications' from cancer or pneumonia, it is more than likely caused by severe sepsis."

Once inflicted, the death rate from sepsis is 40 percent in healthy adults. In younger children and older adults, the probability of dying rises to 80 percent.

Although ranked as the 13th most-common cause of death in the United States, the exact number of fatalities attributable to sepsis is not known. It is estimated that each year there are 400,000 bouts of sepsis, 200,000 cases of septic shock and 100,000 deaths from the illness.

"Sepsis is the body's response to an infection. Patients developing sepsis progress from ill to seriously ill, onto organ dysfunction and failure - called severe sepsis - and then to septic shock," Vincent explains. "Because early treatment is crucial, the faster you are diagnosed, the better your chances of making a full recovery are."

The symptoms of sepsis can include:
* Fever and shaking chills.
* Reduced mental alertness, sometimes with confusion.
* Nausea and vomiting.
* Diarrhea in the presence of infection.
* Sometimes hypotension.
* Altered kidney or liver function in some cases. "If the waters from New Orleans were poured into a bucket and shipped elsewhere, it would have been labeled as a biologically hazardous material." - CCAR's Bob Stewart


The normal symptoms of an infection should not last longer than five days, and a fever should be no higher than 103?F, according to Vincent. "If the fever exceeds 103?F with chills, confusion or difficulty breathing, the patient should be taken to the hospital immediately."

The victim in Mississippi, known to colleagues as "a fireman's fireman," had more than 30 years of experience. At about 10 p.m. on a Monday, he scratched his finger on the car from which he was extricating a patient. He applied disinfectant and an adhesive bandage to the cut.

Tuesday morning he felt a little sick with flu-type symptoms. Wednesday he developed a rash on his back along with back pain. That afternoon he went to a doctor and received muscle relaxant and salve, being told to take it easy for a couple days. Thursday he felt a little drowsy, thinking it was from the medication. By Friday he was feeling better, going to the firehouse to catch up on paperwork. Saturday he collapsed at home and was rushed by ambulance to the hospital. He went into cardiac arrest in the emergency room but was brought back and scheduled for surgery Sunday morning. On Saturday afternoon he suffered another cardiac arrest and could not be revived.

"When opened up, he was filled with septic infection," Hoffman reports. "He was a 65-year-old healthy male."

Spotting potential risks
According to Coordinating Committee for Automotive Repair (CCAR), shop employees need to exercise considerable caution when inspecting or repairing vehicles that may have originated in the Hurricane Zone. Advice is available free for download at www.ccar-greenlink.org.

The floodwaters were loaded with toxins, such as raw sewage, E coli, petrochemicals, human and animal remains, hexavalent chromium, arsenic and lead.

If the waters from New Orleans were poured into a bucket and shipped elsewhere, it would have been labeled as a biologically hazardous material, observes CCAR's Bob Stewart.

Shop managers should communicate the risks and preventative methods to technicians, who in-turn should don rubber gloves and other suitable protective wear. Employees should report any injury, no matter how slight.

"Each vehicle can potentially carry an extraordinary amount of harmful residue," Stewart cautions.

Flooded vehicles do contain clues to their soggy past, and shops conducting repairs or offering prepurchase inspections for their customers can spot several telltale signs:

1. A title search of the vehicle identification number (VIN) is a good first step.

2. Along the vehicle's body, look at seams and around the edges of windows for a high-water mark or specks of dried mud.

3. Water stains, mildew, sand or silt can be seen or smelled under carpets, floor mats, headliner cloth and behind the dashboard.

4. Carpeting and upholstery can be vigorously shampooed, but a hot day will bring back the musty smell.

5. Carpeting and upholstery should last for many years in any given car; it may be a warning sign if it has been replaced. Check to see that it fits properly and shows a true color match.

6. Even the best detailer can't get all of the mud from behind the dash without damaging fragile wiring or other sensitive components.

7. You can never really get all the moisture out of an engine, according to the National Insurance Crime Bureau, which suggests looking under the hood for signs of oxidation. Pull back rubber boots around electrical and mechanical connections to search for rusting ferrous materials, copper parts with a green patina, plus aluminum and alloys displaying pitting or a white power.

8. Check the oil and other fluids for cloudiness indicating water contamination.

9. Inspect for mud or grit in alternator crevices, behind wiring harnesses and around the small recesses of starter motors, power steering pumps and relays along with hints of rust or flaking metal along the undercarriage that you wouldn't expect in a later-model vehicle.

10. See if all the switches and gauges are functioning properly.

11. Try out the heater and air-conditioner, turning them off and on several times. Look inside the vents for evidence of mud or water. Also activate the lights, wipers, turn signals, cigarette lighter and radio. Mud, silt or grit residue can be discovered in the trunk, spare tire well and in headlamp and tail lamp housings.

12. Look for rust on screws in the console, glove box, interior body panels, under the seats or any other area moisture wouldn't normally breach unless the car had been immersed in water.

turtlevette

you telling me this stuff stays active for months and years and you have to crush cars because of it?

sounds like hogwash to me.

fhturner

I hear you saying that it'll cost $$$ to get it up to speed. But work with me here... If I can "score" a flood car for $2500-$5K, as Jeff thinks I can, how much would I really need to spend to get it running as a good track car? $5K? $10K? Even if I spend that much, I've got a track car that I won't be afraid to run hard and won't have to worry about keeping nice for the street, for less than half of what my current car costs. Isn't that worth considering?

I just cannot spend $35K+ on a T1-prepped car-- that'd mean laying out more $$$ than I already have, and I cannot do that right now...

BuckeyeZ06

Can you spend $27,000? If so, I'd take that for my T1 Corvette.

Regarding your flood question: I'd stay away from those cars. The "damage" is tough to eliminate and will haunt you for a long time. You would be better off buying a wrecked salvage car versus the flood damaged one.

I just did this with my soon-to-be T1 Viper. I stayed clear of floods, and Vipers are alot less "sensitive" in the electronics department.

parkerracing

Most C4 TCC/ITE cars trade for 15K.

varkwso

sorry all wounds can go septic - this sounds like something someone should look up on Snopes or whatever....dihydrogen monoxide is more deadly and impacts my braking ability.

Fred - not sure a flood car will be cheaper in the long run. I bought my 99 FRC as a cheaper track car and it has been great - will be modded as needed to keep it fun and it is daily driven by someone in my family almost every day.....