C5corvetteman

Here are my thoughts on this use.

Thanks for the threads on this subject and how great it made my vehicle shine. Since I do not show my vehicle, I think I will no longer use this as a means to give my vehicle that extra shine. I get a great shine with the wax products I use.

I discussed this with my brother-in-law who is a body and paint specialist for over 25 yrs and once he heard what I did, he was totally set back. He told me to wash my vehicle as quickly as possible to remove it and apply a coat of wax. I also might want to consider claying as well, but it would not be necessary. He further went on telling me that, due to the changes of chemicals, most are silicon based and over time will tear down the wax I have on my vehicle and if there are any problems scratches in the clear coat and if any silicon based products get under the clear coat, it will start to tear down the chemical composition of the paint.

Once I finished it on Saturday, I did not drive it, but this morning when I went to drive it to work, I noticed how much dust and lint it collected on the body. Reminded me how much lint and dust collected on my vehicle when I used NXT and I also noticed an oily base as well. Do not like that. I do not get that with Z6 or with Z5/Z2 either.

I will agree, it did make my vehicle shine just a bit more, but not to the point when I will take a change to potentially, over the long term, damage my vehicle........

YO-EL

Most guys use this as a one time only use prior to judging at a show to make their car "pop"...

The show car guys & I will disagree with what you say about damage with prolonged use. None of their cars or my own have sustained ANY ill effects with repeated use of it.
None whatsoever...

My show only 72 Dogde Charger for 5 yrs, my Porsche 911 for 6 years, my 300ZX for 10 years, my show only 78 Indy Pace Car I had for 5 years, and my current 2000 C5 for almost 5 years... ALL have frequent mistings & LQQK GREAT!!!

There are NO harmful compounds, chemicals, or agents which will affect paint or clearcoat. NO SILICONE

Your brothers opinion, is a broad based one on silicone derivities and apply to most car products.

It has nothing to do with Lemon Pledge....

Many of the individuals I know who use it & who have used it for YEARS are paint & body guys themselves!

Because your car is black, you noticed dust more because your finish was much shinier...

Thats the bottom line, a shinier finish, with no harmful effects...
Use it prior to judging, or before a photo shoot, or whenever you want to give your car that extra "boost" or "pop"....

ZaneO

I tried to be polite and stay out, but this is interesting to read.

http://www.instawares.com/msds/94430JD.pdf

C5corvetteman

I have to agree with ZaneO. After researching myself, here are the ingredients from http://householdproducts.nlm.nih.gov...ds&id=19001013

Ingredients from MSDS/Label
Chemical CAS No / Unique ID Percent
Polydimethylsiloxanes (Silicon oil) 063148-62-9 1-5
Naphtha, petroleum, hydrotreated heavy 064742-48-9 0.5-1.5
Mineral oil, white 008042-47-5 1-5
Water 007732-18-5 60-100

Information is knowledge and I have to go with the fact Lemon Pledge dose contain silicon oil and other type material my brother-in-law mentioned.......Thanks anyway for the advice on using it. I am not tying to cause a problem here, but I think it is equally important that we all are well educated on the potential problems that could arise. I feel we should help each other out to protect the valuable possession we have known as the "corvette"....

YO-EL

Guys:
The percentage used is minimal, and will not cause any damage to paint or clear coat.

The percentage of silicone derivitives in actual car products is MUCH HIGHER..;yn

Anyway, if you don't want to use it, then don't.

Silicone derivitives will not harm paint..
Its in about 95% of auto products.
If a body shop has to do a repair, they know what to do to remove all aftermarket products etc..... carnauba, silicone, etc...

Again, if you're afraid to use it, then don't.
If you want your car to have that extra "pop", then "try" it..

Thats all I'm trying to say...

If you think its bad, then it don't use it.

But I am 46 yrs old, and have known guys who have been using it for over 26 years to their cars prior to shows, and no one has had any paint issues.. even while re-painting.....

ZaneO

The percentage used is not really minimal. You are looking at up to 15% of butane, isobutane, and propane. Then you are looking at up to 20% of hydrocarbon solvents and silicones. These are concentrated forms.

*I* don't use any product on my paint that is 35% bad for it.

Sure other car care products have similar amounts of similar elements...they're called tire dressings.

Again, I am not being hostile or trying to start anything with this, but rather helping to provide as much pertinent and beneficial information as possible. That allows everyone to make their own educated decisions.

Have a great day

YO-EL

Dude,, you're wrong.. None of that stuff is harmful to a paint finish..

You are inferring this by what you feel are inappropiate chemicals.

You have no basis for this...

Most car products i.e. waxes & polishes are made of petroleum distillates....

Please do the homework, (since you seem to be so proficient at it), and post what the chemicals are in petrolem distillates, and I think you'll be appalled if you stay with your line of thinking...

Posting the contents of a product is worthless unless you also post the
contents of the more "traditionally accepted ones" as well..

Your thoughts and countering mine aretotally meaningless because you are not a chemist and its totally unfair for you to say one thing is bad, when its used in the same thing you claim is good..


You have no proof..on what you said....
And, I do........
I have 25+ years of using Lemon Pledge on my cars, cars that I have showed, cars that I have driven daily, and kept for many years, with NO ILL EFFECTS...... as well as hundreds of other guys who use it regularly on their cars prior to judging or a photo shoot

If you're gonna say its detrimental, show me PHYSICAL PROOF that using Lemon Pledge damaged a cars finish.. I have yet to see it..

ZaneO

You are free to feel I am wrong.

You cannot say that butane, propane, etc. is good for paint.

You are correct that most products contain petrolleum distillates but not nearly such a concentration. Not all PDs are dangerous (when diluted and processed for use in car products). It's all about concentrations and types.

I never claimed to be a chemist. Are you a chemist?

You can smoke and not get cancer...does that mean cigarettes can't cause cancer? This is the logic you are applying with your Lemon Pledge theory (ie. it didn't hurt your cars). Tell me again how you determined that with your eyes?

These are just thoughts, opinions, and questions. Please don't take it as anything personal.

Take care.

YO-EL

I don't take it personal, dude...

I just think you're incorecct by posting that using Lemon Pledge is harmful to a cars finish, or as you put it, contains products that you wouldn't dare put on your car..

Meanwhile, by using ANY car product, you are in fact doing just that!

" Petroleum distillates, also called hydrocarbons or petrochemicals, refer to a broad range of compounds which are extracted by distillation during the refining of crude oil.

Petroleum distillates are found in a wide variety of consumer-products including lip gloss, liquid gas, fertilizer, furniture polish, pesticides, plastics, paint thinners, solvents, motor oil, fuels and hundreds of other products.

Petroleum distillates listed commonly on labels of general household products are those that distill off around naphthas. Petroleum jelly, a petroleum distillate product, is generally regarded as nontoxic.

Petroleum distillates contain both aromatic hydrocarbons (carbon rings) and aliphatic hydrocarbons (straight carbon chains). The chemical structure of the hydrocarbon largely defines the nature and behavior of these compounds. Aromatic hydrocarbons are the most toxic compounds found in petroleum products. Most aromatic hydrocarbons are long-term toxins and known cancer causing agents.

These aromatic compounds are found in all crude oils and most petroleum products.
Many aromatic hydrocarbons have a pleasant odor and include such substances as naphthalene, xylene, toluene, and benzene. Aliphatic hydrocarbons are flammable and may be explosively flammable. Aliphatic hydrocarbons include methane, propane, and kerosene.


Well, I don't see any Petroleum Distillates in Lemon Pledge, but I bet plenty of people are using stuff that contain it, right?
With no ill effects to the car, right???

YO-EL

Now, I'm going to post something that is THE most important thing of all.. But first read that this well known CHEMIST said:

The CHEMIST is:
Mr. Dean Whitehead
BIOGRAPHY:


Dean Whitehead’s career in the oil and chemical industry began in 1953 after attending UCLA where he majored in Chemistry. He continued his education at Bakersfield College by studying petroleum and later took courses at Marshall University in diplomacy as his responsibilities broadened taking him throughout the world.

Mr. Whitehead’s qualifications are extensive and impressive. The companies he has been associated with are a virtual Who’s Who in the petroleum and chemical industry. They include Union Oil Company, Arthur C. Withrow Company, Wynn Oil Company, Purolator, Inc. Ashland Oil, Inc./Valvoline Oil Company. The positions Mr. Whitehead held during his thirty-eight year tenure with these international companies included Manager of Technical Operations, District Manager of Products and Lubricants, Assistant Director of Automotive and Product Application Laboratories, Vice President of Operations, Executive Assistant to the President, and Group Vice President.

Mr. Whitehead has a broad foundation in the petroleum and chemical industries. His responsibilities were many including manufacturing, production, research, refining, distribution and operations.

This is what Mr Whitehead says in relation to using a product:
" I rely on the manufacturer’s reputation and especially on recommendations from other users when judging what product to buy for the first time and then by my own experience after I’ve used it."

So, when deceiding on weather to use Lemon Pledge on you car to give it that extra pop, you can listen to me and many other guys who have used it, or try it yourself & get your own experience...

So, DON'T tell me its bad, wrong, or harmful, if you can't produce those facts from anyone who HAS used it, OR if you haven't used it yourself and found it to be true

Of MY OWN 25 YEAR EXPERIENCE of USING IT, and many other people I know who use it, we COLLECTIVELY feel there is NO HARM, NOTHING DETRIMENTAL, SHORT TERM OR LONG TERM, to misting your car with Lemon Pledge for that extra pop.....

We still have our cars, have gotten them spot repaired & repainted when necessary, etc, with NO PROBLEMS from using Lemon Pledge.

Based on our experience using it, we feel is is safe, effective, and if it wasn't, we would not continue to use it..

Now, in lieu of all the sh*t you're gonna post, isn't that the real bottom line?

ZaneO

If I'm not mistaken, isoparaffinic hydrocarbon solvents are petroleum distillates that are very similar to what is found in body solvents used to strip waxes, oils, sealants (and sometimes the paint itself) from cars.

Propane, butane, and isobutane are all forms of petroleum distillates. Ask any person in the chemistry field.

PS - You need to grow up at 46 yrs. old and learn how to carry on a civilized conversation.

Enough of my stupid ****, though. We'll just let people decide for themselves.

YO-EL

Well lets see Einstein...
My car looks great,
and hasn't fallen apart yet.
All the body panels are intact.
My clear coat is still on the car,
and its not sctratched,
not cloudy,
glossy as can be,
The panels are not warping,
not cracking,
not peeling,
not fading,
the seams are all straight,
doors open & close,
no squeeks or rattles,
water still beads off it,
people still comment its the nicest Pewter car they ever saw..
Ummm yea, I think my car is "still" OK...

What type of "damage" should I be looking for?

And, oh yea, I've had my front fascia re-painted with NO problems from the paint shop....so there goes your silicone theory too..

Tell me, what damage will using Lemon Pledge with all its contents do anyway?

Remember, this is my car, freshly misted with it, after 5 years of it.

and here's my current car after 5 yrs of misting with it....


So, where's the damage?

ZaneO

Well, that proves it right there. Your **** flies much farther than mine.

Sorry again, Corvette Forum, to have wasted everyone's time by being such an idiot.

Another thread down the drain...

YO-EL

Don't give up so easy bro....

Look, you haven't used it,
you don't know ANYONE who has,
yet your telling me its bad it use, when me & many others have been using this for years..

Everyone laughs & looks twice when its used, but, it works...

You have a right to your opinion, but what I've been trying to tell you is that you have no basis for it other than your "assumption" that its no good.

I'm telling you, try it, or talk to a show guy or a boat guy who deos...

Look, I found some comments off motorbyte.com, a well known motorcycle site.. Read this:

"Pledge

Enough cannot be said about the benefits of this product for a motorcycle. Noted collectors and restorers repeatedly mentioned that it is the only thing they used for cleaning because it did not harm any vintage paint, metals, leather, rubber or plastics.

Still, people have almost fallen down laughing when they see me spraying my bike and helmet down with Pledge after a couple days ride though the billions of mosquitoes and other winged nasties we have here in Minnesota. It helps dissolve acidic bug guts, road tar and unidentified gunk and grime very quickly. It is also an excellent lubricating layer to avoid dirt and other particles from scratching surfaces as you wipe them.

It will help in the rain, as it beads water somewhat. I use it over my normal auto cleaner wax product and it does a top rate job. It can even be used on chrome, if you have any.

It does a killer job on bodywork, wheels, seat, windshield and visor…even your leathers! "
------------------------------------------------------------------
See, there are pleany or other people using it on painted clear coated finishes... Again, you have your opinion, but are you being fair to formulate an opinion of a product without even trying it or talking to anyone who uses it?

You have read my posts, I have used it, others use it, but you want to refute my statements about the results. Why???

Look at all the uses for WD-40. People laugh at them, but for the people who use it & get the desired results, they swear by it...

Do the same thing for Lemon Pledge...
Ask around, try it... It won't hurt.....

ZaneO

I'm not giving up; there's just nothing else to discuss with you.

mjmc1273

I use Lemon Pledge to clean/polish my mountain and road bikes. It does shine them up! But, I like Zaino on the Vette. I think I actually like to spend the time doing the Zaino.

LS WON

Cleaning out your vents in the interior and it smells so good.

TOGWT

Lemon Pledge is mostly water, the silicone it uses is Polydimethylsiloxane, which is water-based not petroleum-based. I have used Pledge on concouse cars just before juding for 20+ years with no harmful effects (not a product I'd use for paint protection, but that's another thread...)

Silicone:
Silicones are primarily used to modify or improve certain characteristics; they are sometimes added as a lubricant to provide spread ability thereby making a product easier to apply.

The automotive industry uses silicones as component parts in its plastic, vinyl, rubber, paints, fibreglass as well as in polishes and waxes. Silicone oils provide an excellent lubricant that when used as a carrier system in polishes that makes them easier to apply and remove. When used in paints and other coatings it ensures an even flow through a spray nozzle ensuring an even product distribution.
The low surface tension of some silicones improves automotive cleaning products by increasing the ‘wetting’ ability by providing a much better surface contact for abrasive or solvent type cleaners and polishes.

The newer amino functional silicones when added to products create a physical bond with the surface; this boding provides better product durability than products that rely only on surface tension for bonding.

Silicone oils are inherently water repellent so the won’t allow water to compromise the paint surface providing better durability and protection. Because of silicones ability to refract light it also provides a ‘brighter’ shine. The myth that silicone is bad is just that, a myth, and like most myths there is a little truth in it. Silicone are basically inert, it's what's added to them that makes them bad.

The Good: Polydimethylsiloxane (PDS) is water based, amino functional polymer that doesn't migrate (dry out) the plasticizers from materials, has less UV radiation absorption and dust attraction properties. Chemists use water-in-oil emulsions, to reduce emulsion particle size, to stabilize emulsions, and to improve spreading and coverage of wax products.

Most modern silicone formulas are water soluble (no petroleum), and are completely inert. The best way to describe most forms of silicone is to think of it as a man-made wax ester. Silicone is created by the reaction generated when you combine fatty acids with Polydimethylsiloxane

The Bad: Dimethyl is derived from Aromatic hydrocarbons (petroleum) distillates, which are environmentally unsound and give a slick, oily finish, which attracts dust and dirt. It also causes rubber compounds along with sun iteration to remove the micro-wax in tyres as well as its carbon black (it's what gives tyres their colour) they are often mislabelled as modem /synthetic polymers by manufactures.

The Ugly: Silicone is an active ingredient in sun UV amplification. As a low quality silicone dressing evaporates away, the silicone oil is left behind, the sun then amplifies these residues, and the drying process is accelerated.

All this causes rubber, EDPM, vinyl and plastics to dry out, which turns them grey or brown, losing their flexibility and prematurely fail. Water-based dressings do not contain oils or petroleum distillates and provide a non- greasy, natural looking satin finish.

For a Few Dollars More: Hydrocarbon (petroleum) distillates can be further purified, re-distilled, reacted and combined with various other chemicals to produce a wide range of environmentally safe and useful silicone products. Products that contain “Petroleum distillates must be labelled with the phrase, “Contains petroleum distillates”, regardless of the properties of the distillate used in its formulation. This labelling is mandated by the Consumer Product Safety Commission (a federal government agency) this warning is provided to help doctors and emergency personnel decide how best to treat in gestation. These warnings have nothing to do with product performance or suitability; the directions for use and other cautions are for information only.

In conclusion, to group all silicones into one category and label them harmful, environmentally unsound or dangerous is both unscientific and without foundation.

JonM

LS WON

YO-EL

Yea, what he said....