agentf1

Apparently if you think Zaino is better than a meguiars product on meguiarsonline forum they disable your account. Now I know why you don't see many negative responses on that forum. :lol:

http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums...&threadid=1007


[Modified by agentf1, 4:14 PM 5/12/2004]

Killrwheels

Well we agree on at least one thing (Zaino versus NXT).... to bad about MequiresOnline but I wouldnt dis their "holy grail" on their own site. Thats what car care and autopia.org is available for :lolg:

hcvone

Frank, maybe if they knew you spent 10k on their products over the years they would not have locked you out ;) :lol: :lol:

0MikePhillips

Frank,

As I said in the e-mail I sent you,

*********
agentf1,

Thank you for your contributions.

I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt, but so far you have not posted anything that benefits our members. I don't really care if you want to use Zaino on your Corvette, that's your choice. We want you to be happy with your car care product selection.

I am a busy person and I do not have time to baby-sit the forum each time you decide to visit. For this reason I have banned you. You are the first person I have had to ban. I feel bad for doing this, if you can show me a reason why you think you'll make a positive contributing member and not a person that is on our forum to bash Meguiar's, argue with our forum members or promote Zaino then I will allow you access to the forum again.


Mike

*************

If you feel you can contribute in a positive way, then I will allow you access to the forum again. Think about it for a moment, a Meguiar's forum is for people that want to discuss primarily Meguiar's, not Zaino. They can come here, or go to Autopia, or wherever. Most people are smart enough to do a google search to find what they're looking for.

I seriously didn't want to ban you, and you are the first to be banned. My job is to help people to get the best results from their time, money and efforts, not argue with someone over their choice of car wax.

So it's really up to you, if you can contribute in a positive way, then I'll gladly welcome you back.

Mike




[Modified by Mike Phillips, 3:19 PM 5/12/2004]

0MikePhillips

You know Carl, I didn't want to ban him, and I know he uses other Meguiar’s products that he likes, but most of the posts he has been a part of for the last few days have been negative on Meguiar's and promoting Zaino.

I just don't have the time to watch everything he posts and play games.

Monday night, starting at about midnight and working for about 6 hours, I buffed out a black 1993 Corvette for this years Plastic Fantastic event in San Diego, that was fun!

Making black paint, (technically clear paint over black paint), look good.

Helping others to do so also is fun. Arguing with agentf1 isn't fun and doesn't help anyone.

By the way, I have not experienced a single case of a milky look to probably over 200 cars I have now applied NXT Tech Wax to, so like I said to agentf1 in another post, his experience is not the normal experience, although I'm sure it's honest.

Mike

0MikePhillips

And of course, this offer still holds true...
(One of my responses posted to a thread agentf1 started)

Agentf1,

Please consider this invitation to attend a very special event taking place here at Meguiar’s on July 17th.

This will be an all day detailing clinic here at Meguiar's for members of CorvetteForums online discussion forum.

Here is the information.

Members of CorvetteForum Detail Day at Meguiar’s

http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums...nfo&eventid=25

If you'll get your own air line ticket down here, Meguiar's will pick up the tab for your hotel. I will personally roll out the red carpet.

The purpose will not be to change your mind, but to provide you with an opportunity to meet and greet some of your forum friends from CorvetteForum, as well as put a face to an Avatar!

I promise it will be fun, I promise it will be educational. I'll even have my complete collection of competitor's products available for testing and comparing, plus there will be a plethora of Corvettes here to detail. You can bring your Zaino products, or use mine, I have them all, new and old.

If you like, I'll have Lynn find you a screaming deal for air line tickets, she is very good at this.

Think about it. We would love to have you here.

Mike

(End of my response)
__________________
Mike Phillips
Technical Specialist
1-800-854-8073 ext. 189
mphillips@meguiars.com

Same goes for you Killerwheels and Carl, if you two guys pay for your own airfair tickets, Meguair's will put you up in one of the nicest hotels around so you can attend the CorvetteForum Detail Day at Meguair's.

Mike




[Modified by Mike Phillips, 3:55 PM 5/12/2004]

Killrwheels

Mike,

your offer is appreciated and if time permitted I would be there. With or without the red carpet !!! I believe I could learn alot from you (not product specific necessarily but techniques) and would be open to it. If you ever visit South Florida (consider it a work - r/r visit) I will be there. Even though you may not agree, I have the utmost respect for you and your work.

As for the banning, I can understand it but dont like it. (thats why I joked about it above). It tethers on the 1st Admendment write to say what we think, and we are all free to do so. BUT ... it is your board and thus proper ethics tells me to leave it alone and not go over there and create issues just because my personal experience with one product was different than others. Doesnt mean I cannot lurk or look for hints just because I prefer another product to NXT. I respect your territory and can tell by your posts here on the corvetteforum that you feel the same. (you stick to car care, Mequiars, and Corvette Clinics)

AgentF1 is a zaino-holic. Neither of us are gonna change that. It is a great product , not without some detractions. But we all need to remember we live in a world of opinions , especially consider the "subjective" nature of car detailing.





[Modified by Killrwheels, 7:27 PM 5/12/2004]

0MikePhillips

I think we can all agree to disagree!

Unfortunately when a member causes a disturbance and is annoying other members we have to keep the peace so our members that are contributing in a positive manor will continue to contribute.

As I have said before, Agentf1 is more than welcome to come back to the forum, if he is willing to contribute in a positive manor.

Killrwheels

actually I agreed with your decision (sorry for the vague post). I would not expect you to post "Zaino Sucks, NXT Rules" on Zainos board and nobody should do the same on yours. Eithics and morals teaches us all to respect each other areas and we should expect the same.

Now, if I was to post my concern with NXT and ask for hints or similar results. That should be considered valued and considerate. It would provide benefit to all as someone else may be in same situation, or already found a secret or hint for it.

hcvone

Mike, I think if you read some of the other Auto Forum's besides Meguiar's Forum you will find people having problems and some making negative comments about the company you work for, of course there are application problems with every product sold at some point depending on who is applying it. I think Frank was just trying to get you to answer his questions that you never did seem to answer, I guess banning him answers the questions. :confused:

0MikePhillips

Carl,

I do read other forums and I do see other people having problems, but by far, there are more people in the world, and online that love Meguiar’s products, than have problems with them. And when someone does have a problem with them, that's where a money back guarantee comes in handy. Meguiar’s is a great company to work for, I love my job showing people how to get Awesome results from their time money and efforts. When someone like Frank comes along, I do my best to help them, but in the end, I didn’t ban him, he banned himself. He should be a distributor, perhaps he can work for you? He should also get his own website and discussion forum, then he can sit around and talk about Zaino all day.

For the most part, I all of the heated debates and arguments I have seem to be with Zaino users.

Funny how that works. Take you post here for example.

I answered Frank's question to the best of my ability, I didn't ban him because I didn't like his answers, I banned him because all of his posts became,

"Zaino this" and "Zaino that"

That doesn't contribute to the forum in a positive manner.

I read Frank’s posts all the time, it would appear that he has an agenda. It would also appear that he doesn’t like anyone using anything but Zaino. I mean, from reading his posts, that’s my take on them. It could be something different, but that’s how they read.

Here's one thing I will tell you Carl, every Corvette I have applied the new Tech Wax to, that previously had Zaino on it, looks so much better than it did before.

Frank may be having a problem with Tech Wax, but Tech Wax isn't having any problems with Zaino.



The paint on the above Corvette just glowed after we removed the NXT Tech Wax. I’ll take some pictures of it this weekend at the Plastic Fantastic event. I should have at least 4 Corvettes down there that I have worked on and applied Tech Wax to. It should be a ton of fun!

Mike

Vert-I-go

I'm really not interested in the debate or in taking sides. I was a bit unhappy with the posts attacking NXT as I felt they were becomming a bit childish. Zaino is a great product and if it works best for you by all means use it. I also used Zaino and like most of us am always open to trying a new product that might give me a new and exciting view of my cars. I gotta tell you I'm really impressed with Meguiars products, including NXT. I attended the "Open Invite" at Meguiars this past Monday and I gotta tell you I was equally impressed with Mike Phillips and the Meguiars philosophy. Never once was their a negative word about any competitor's products. Enough said on all this.

:beatdeadhorse:

Again, I think Zaino is a great product. IMHO NXT Tech Wax works better for me, easier on and off, deeper color and shine. I like that my Torch Red Vette looks Red and doesn't appear to have an orangish tint to it. Again, its my opinion. I guess my point is I tried NXT and like it better than the Zaino. Fine, done, I'm not gonna start trying to convert anybody or bash any of the other products.


Here's a couple of pics of my car the day after it's 1st NXT application this past Monday.

:cheers:




:seeya

hcvone

Mike, that is not the NXT, I have heard from many people that you wheel their cars with several different products (Meguiar's) , you then add NXT, it's the prep that is giving the cars the glow you talk about. I heard (correct me if I am wrong) but you spent over 3 hours buffing out a BMW hood, you then put half NXT and half Zaino on the hood of the BMW, which the BMW owner left on for several weeks, the NXT side stopped beading water after 3 weeks and the owner then went back to what he was using, or didn't I read the BMW owners post correctly. ;)

One question for you, you talk about not be able to measure durability in some of your posts, but right on your product it says " Extreme beading action" which is true when first applied (I have tested NXT on 3 different cars), but after 3 weeks the tight small beads are large pools of water, doesn't this tell you that the protection and durability is gone? Thank you

agentf1

Mike, as I said on your forum I was not comfortable tooting the Zaino horn and did try to end it a few times before your members started to attack my credibility which made me feel compelled to reply to their responses. I think you may have been insulted when I said that you and your website had an agenda. Unfortunately you banned me before I was able to explain myself. I did not mean it in a deragatory way and would fully expect you to have an agenda, it is MEGUIARS website. I think that beginner2000 is being naive to say that company websites do not have an agenda. I am sure you did not create your site to talk about/compare other products and would not say your product does not last even if it doesn't. Your job and the web sites job is to sell a product. I stand behind my statement that you get more unbiased opinions on car forums like this one opposed to "company" sites. Again, I apologize for tooting the Zaino horn but also stand behind everything I say as far as "my" experience with NXT. Putting Zaino aside, I used #26 before and would be saying the same things about NXT today had I been still using #26, you would just need to replace Zaino with #26 everywhere on my post. Obviously you don't want to hear my opinion on your site if it is not in a favorable light for your products. To me that is censorship and makes what I read on your web page less credible.


[Modified by agentf1, 8:51 AM 5/13/2004]

agentf1

You are right Carl, I guess I have my answer now.
You are right killrwheels, I am a zainoholic but I am open to other product as well. I actually liked the Pinnacle sample that I tried and would love to try the paste. I also like #26 and have used it for years before zaino. I would even say both of those products are better than NXT and are a close second to Zaino, unfortunately we are not playing horseshoes or handgrenades so close doesn't take it.

In conclusion, I offer anybody to stop by my garage to look at the results I am getting. I would also like to point out that as far as I know I think Zaino and autogeek are supporting vendor of this site and I do see some people posting opposing views but they do not get banned, hmmmmmmmm.

agentf1

Apparently my thread has even been deleted, censorship at its finest. :nonod: I would have liked my post to have stayed so people could see that I was not bashing NXT but simply trying to get an answer to my durability problem. Whats this tell you guys?


[Modified by agentf1, 9:29 AM 5/13/2004]

VettePower

Hey Secret Agent Man, I totally agree with Mike Phillips banning you and deleting your Troll posts. If your beloved Zaino had a forum, and I went on there and bad mouthed their product, I am sure I would be banned. So keep your opinions to yourself and not on a products website. :mad
Nobody really gives a flying hoot what you think anyways, and will use whatever they beleive is best for them.

agentf1

I am glad you were able to come to this conclusion without even reading my post. Apparently if they cannot answer your question or don't like your opinion they ban you and delete your post. Atleast Zaino speaks for itself and does not have to censor post that don't agree with it.

jrose7004

You do know that Barry is "Car Crazy" don't you! :rofl: :lolg:

0MikePhillips

You're talking about a car I never worked on. The black 1991 BMW that I did the before and after on, Zaino never touched the hood. The below one right?

Before




Before and After – Side by Side



After



This particular BMW detail was a demonstration on what could be accomplished using the correct products and procedures. It was not a comparison test of other products.


I usually say it's hard to test protection. Medallion and Gold Class both protect well, but they don't bead water, so how can you tell when they are on the surface? i.e. durability?

I have written a lot of copy for Meguiar’s. And I did write the rough drafts for the new NXT line. I didn't write the above statement however.

What I have found in every comparison test I have done with car waxes, is that after 2-3 washes, the beading action of most/all products fall off sharply including NXT Tech Wax and Zaino. In one particular test on a Acura Legend, I applied 3 coats of Tech Wax, and 3 coats of Zaino Z2 with ZFX after washing the car with Dawn. I did my very best to test these two products honestly and with integrity.

One week later, I washed the hood of the car with Z7 car wash. After washing the car I then tested both sides for water beading. The water beading on both sides fell off sharply. I don't remember exactly because it's been about a year since I did the test, but if I do remember correctly, I don't think I could tell the difference between the two sides.

Zaino does bead water really well. So far, no one has shown me that the water beading ability proves protection. Table Margarine will bead water, so will the oil film, (from burnt exhaust gasses), my 350 Chevy engine spews out and builds up on the back of my 73 Blazer after a long trip, however this oil film is corrosive.

Here's two things I know.

1) Zaino beads water better than NXT
2) NXT makes paint look better than Zaino (My opinion of course, an experience of course, not a fact)

Frank says NXT makes his black Corvette look milky. I know for a fact I have applied NXT to more cars than anyone else, all types of cars and all types of paint, and to date, I have never experienced a milky look, in fact, just the opposite. The results I have achieved each and every time are 99.9% Optically clear, deep dark, high gloss results.

So go figure.

Here’s the infamous Mini Cooper that used nothing but Zaino since the owner bought it. The below picture is with no prep work, only one coat of NXT over the existing dozens of layers of Zaino.



In the sun, the above car looked hazy or plasticy with Zaino. After Tech Wax, it was crystal clear with a deep, wet-looking gloss. The owner switched to NXT that day and has never switched back. In fact a rumor about him switching back was posted on Autopia and I sent him an e-mail asking him to chime in whether he did or not. I told him that it wouldn’t hurt my feelings if he thought Zaino worked better and switched back, that what I wanted the most was an honest answer to insure the truth was known.

Here’s the link to that discussion,

http://www.autopia.org/forums/showth...8&pagenumber=1

Open invitation…

I don’t think my Viper Class is full this weekend, actually, I don’t have a clue as to how many people are going to show up, what I do know is I’m going to show up and do my best to show people how to get the best results from their time, money and efforts.

Anyone reading this that would like to attend, please feel free to do so.

Here’s the link to information about the event,

http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums/calendar.php

Click on the 15th for the time the class starts and an outline of the day. I have a black hood, plenty of black paint panels, my old demonstration panel that is 8’ by 4’ with one half single stage black lacquer and the other half a PPG Deltron bc/cc paint system, (by the way, the clear coat on this panel is oxidized if anyone would like to see oxidized clear coat paint).

I always stay till the last man standing, so bring it on!

Mike