4THTOY

All I can say is if you are not a "Z" case, try this, it is the best wax I have ever tried, and I have a room full of wax/polish bottles half used. I last used P21s, and this beats that hands down, goes on easy, just wipes off. I don'r care how long it lasts as I wax almost every Saturday or Sunday early AM. Gives a very wet shine.

Jim91Vert

I don't know if those are before or after pics on your site but regardless your vette looks great!

I'm just starting out with Zaino right now but I've heard the Pinnacle Souveran works well on dark colors. I'll probably experiment with it in a few months. :cheers:

4THTOY

Jim
Thanks for the kind words. I tried the "Z", but did not find it worked well on my wife's black car, the Souveran adds 'warmth" and for the hassle to get "Z", + the cost and drying time I went back to wax.

Kale

Whered you get it? I'd like to do a head-to-head with zaino in the bed of my truck :lol:

4THTOY

Here is where I got it http://properautocare.com

DsC5

I'm with you on this one, with the exception of cost and dry time concerns with Zaino. I don't think either is a problem in the slightest.
I do agree 1000% the something was missing with Zaino on black - and the Souveran (I use the paste, not the liquid) adds that "warmth" or that extra kick. :seeya

hcvone

I found that P21S had a better shine than Pinnacle when I tested it, they both lasted about the same amount of time as most carnauba products.

Intermezzo

It's been two months since my last application of P21S on my wife's black bimmer and the shine is still going strong and the surface is still relatively slick.......but not ice-slippery like it would be it if were Zaino'd. Nevertheless, I'm pretty impressed that this stuff is lasting 2+ months.

Z on black isn't my favorite either...however, I'm considering going back to Z on this car simply because I see the car more often in the evenings (as does my wife). And a Zaino'd car in the evening has that awesome glow to it that no other product can match. I still haven't decided though.....basically, it's come down to either Z or Blackfire II.


[Modified by Intermezzo, 11:22 PM 11/4/2002]

C5 AV8R

Have you tried Blackfire? I've been using Zaino on the Corvette - but thinking of using Pinnacle on the Ferrari for depth [and since it'll be a weekend car] but also have had recommendations for Blackfire.

Intermezzo

I've only tried BF on a single test panel (hood of my little sister's car) and my impressions are as follows:

1. It's as slick as Zaino and actually easier to use.
2. Very reflective shine, but not quite the "pop" in glossiness that Zaino gives you.
3. It truly does mimic a carnauba shine...the depth and warmth of shine was pretty impressive.
4. I've washed the test panel twice so far and there was no noticeable diminishment in slickness. It's still as slick as a ice.... but of course, its true durability remains to be seen.

My only concern is that the original BF formula had a very high PH and also contained abrasives. I don't know if the new formula is closer to neutral (the way Zaino is) and I highly doubt they eliminated the abrasive content. I suppose I could think of BF as a "high-performance" cleaner wax.

Ferrari? I'd stick with either Souveran or Zaino. Why? Souveran doesn't contain any abrasives, is easy to work with and has a spectacular shine. And Zaino, IMO is the most paint-friendly product in the market. When it comes to detailing a ferrari, I'd be willing to compromise a little "warmth of shine" in exchange for something that I can feel absolutely sure is good for your paint... I don't feel that way AT ALL with Blackfire.

Pooch

Looks great. Like me, you are born to wax :cool:

Intermezzo

In all fairness, I just tested the "new" version of Blackfire for abrasives and couldn't find any. The original version would leave a faint amount of marring (which I just tested again to be sure) if applied on a CD followed by a Dawn wash, but I couldn't detect any marring at all when doing the exact same procedure with the "new" blackfire.

Intermezzo

BF is a bit of an unusual product because it doesn't really seem to "dry".
Yesterday, I saw my BF'd car under direct sunlight for the first time and I
was shocked at the smears all over the car. Apparently, they weren't visible under my garage's flourescent lights. In fact, the car looked spectacular in the garage. I tried removing the smears by spritzing with water followed by a clean MF....didn't work. I tried to apply another coat of BF,
making absolute sure to use the thinnest coat possible....didn't work.
Finally, out of desperation, I applied a coat of P21S carnauba...and that
did the trick.

I don't know...maybe I was doing something wrong, but I'm really having a
problem with the "smeariness" of BF, no matter how thin I apply the coat. I
even limited myself to just ONE mf per panel when buffing. This is really
disappointing too because despite the smears, the car had a very satisfying
shine & very good slickness....and it's easy to use too (except for the
smears). I may or may not try it one more time to try and get it right. But if it doesn't work out, this stuff is going into the waste basket. I'm not sure how I can possibly use thinner coats than what I was doing....and I was using LESS than a dime size (4 small drops) to cover my entire hood and letting it dry for several hours (overnight). I was applying the stuff as ultra-thin as possible and was still having the problem. It would look great in the garage, but when I pulled it out into the sun, it was still very smeary....and EXTREMELY prone to fingerprint smears. It's like the stuff never 'dries'. I definitely would not recommend this product.

BrandonB

isnt BF pretty expensive?
is it just a single stage?

also you can send it to me to try out b/f you trash it :D

Intermezzo

Yes, it's a bit expensive.
It's not a one-step product. There's also an accompanying Gloss Enhancing Polish that can be used prior to applying BF, but you can use any polish or pre-wax cleaner.

I might try BF a few more times (with other cars) to see if I can get it right b/c a few others have reported good results. That doesn't mean BF didn't put up a fight though...because everyone has been reporting a little bit of smeariness when using it. On the other hand, there are some who have been getting smears just as bad as me when using it. If after 1 or 2 more uses, I don't see any improvement, I'll send it to you.

BrandonB

alright, i'll see how it does on white.

mhaber

I used the original two step BF--gloss followed by polish--and agree it gives a good shine and some depth. I like it because it's easy on and off, no curing time. But, I wasn't overly impressed on Mag Red so I finished the bottle on my Jeep. I've used about 1/2 jar of Souveran paste, multiple layers over several month, and I like the depth and easy on/off. You don't need to wait for it to dry, in fact they say to remove it before it fully dries. Side to side on my hood, next to Z, the Souveran paste was tacky and a real dust collector. I then tried P21S which is better than Souveran in my book--same easy on/off, no waiting for it to dry fully. It leaves the surface smooth with a shine and wet look. It also costs 1/4 the price of Sourveran (my Souveran cost $49 on sale). FYI, you can get S100 motorcycle wax at any cycle shop, it's the identical formula to P21S and is about $12 versus $22-24 for P21S. I'm now trying 3M paste wax which is a mix of carnauba, montan waxes and polymers. $12 per can. It's a little harder to remove than P21S but I'm really pleased with the shine and depth.


[Modified by mhaber, 12:11 PM 11/20/2002]