greffed

I've been using Griot products for over three years and I haven't had any problems with their products. The people at Griot have been very helpful over the years. They have a wonderful customer service department and respond to questions in a reasonable amount of time.
I'm not apposed to changing to Zaino products if they can prove that their product is superior not only in how the car looks but also how the product can help with longevity as far as the paint is concerned.
In other words, which product will help protect my finish in the short and long term. Does Zaino help preserve my paint or does Griot do a better job of protecting by paint and finish against the harsh environment.
From what I've see so far, Griots polishes uses a fine abrasive to polish and clean the paint and their waxes are made from a carnauba base product. Zaino products use a synthetic chemical product and uses no waxes at all.
So, which product will help preserve my paint and give me the best looks?

Bill97Z

Not a fair comparison. Carnubas cannnot compete with synthetics in durability. As for "preserving the natural look", zaino makes your car look like fresh paint, and carnuba gives a wetter oily shine. It's a matter of preference, one is not better than the other, it depends on what you like. Zaino shine will not fade with every wash like most carnubas do because the oils tend to deplete rather quickly.

Pat97Vette

Greffed,

I have the same concern. I've always used Meguires, just like the autobody guys. I used to be one of them. I don't want to buy a product that does long-term damage to my finish.

Paint is a chemical. I don't know what the long term effects are of Zaino chemicals on paint chemicals. What happens after 10 or 20 years of ownership? How does the paint change? Does it soften? Does it deteriorate rapidly? Zainobros.com web site says "crytal clear finish" and "does not cotain any oils." The Zaino guys didn't use spell check before putting up a web site, so what kind of quality am I getting from their product?

I know that Zaino is not a wax, but a polymer. By definition a polymer is naturally occurring or synthetic; consisting of large molecules made up of a linked series of repeated simple monomers. That could be anything!

Anyone out there with a list of ingredients? Any chemists out there with the chemical breakdown?

Thanks,
Pat

0Zaino Bros (Sal)

Pat,

I am a custom painter by trade for over 30 years and have a broad knowledge of paint chemisty... My paintwork and customizing has been featured in major auto magazines and publications since 1974. Zaino polish has been in use since 1975.... Naturally it has been changed, modified and improved over the years to keep up with current paint technology....

Zaino is a complex synthetic "polymeric system". For our purposes here
in layman terms, these polymers are lab produced hydrocarbon based
string like molecules which are capable of crosslinking or bonding
together to produce a (microscopic) flexible chain-link fence type of
weave. When applied to your car's clear coat, the Zaino polymers
produce a perfectly clear yet flexible layer of protection..:)

This layer is very thin, but (because it is flexible) can expand and
contract along with your car's sheet metal or in the corvette's case, SMC or other fiberglass
composites and paint layers. It's also very tough and will out last most wax based products by at least 4 to 1.

Now about the typo's on my website... I'm really sorry and I do apologize.... If you want an English major to make your car care products, that's fine with me.. But I am currently redoing a complete new e-commerce website..:)

Hope this helps...:)

Pat97Vette

Hi Sal,

Thanks for the reply. I knew I'd get your attention by mentioning the web site typo's!!! :D :D :D :D However, that's not what's making me question your product.

I'm the same skeptic on the mysporttrac.com forum that resulted in an email to you from one "ST'rriffic" who owns a collision shop, something-something Crash One who seems to follow me around that forum and "correct" me on every post I make. Anyway, I seem to be seeing the same replies from you no matter what forum I post to or search for your answers. I'm convinced that you have hotkeys programmed for every person who asks questions. :lol:

I think you have a cool product and market it well. I have previous prep and paint experience, as well as sales. Those are 2 career paths I loved but gave up years ago. I know that you believe in your product and you have to in order to be successful. I know that experience forms trust, which is an integral part of selling as well. My hat's off to you for your success.

However, I want to test your integrity. I really would like to get down to the guts of the product. Understanding that the "recipe" is something you would never give up and I know why. ;) I'm no chemist but I've done a some research on "polymeric systems" and come to the same conclusions as you, they mesh, flow, and are tough. I would have loved to be there to see the excitement in your eyes the first time you tested this polymer on a vehicle. :yesnod:

But, Sal, what is this stuff doing to my paint? I've seen this question come up on this forum and the answer is "it's safe." And people seem to take your word for it. But, no one I know has used the product since 1975, let alone 1995, on the same finish and can attest to that. No one but you who, is doing the right thing, backing your product resulting in sales success. :yesnod:

No matter where I post my question, "what are the long term effects," I get flamed :mad and feel stupid, when I just want to know what, chemically, is happening between my paint and the product. Since my paint is a polymer, and the product is a polymer, there is a reaction of some sort going on. But, what is that reaction and what are it's long term effects? Without giving away the secret recipe, I'd like to tap into your experience. Can you provide a "better than layman's" description to describe what's going on here and what happens over time?

Much appreciated,
Pat Freeman
97vette.com

Calabra

Pat:

There should be no long term effects using Zaino. Many users have used it for over 10 years without reporting any problems.
If you are truly concerned then you should not bother using it and/or wait 20 more years and see whether there are any "long term effects".

Why should Sal give out the ingredients? It took him hard work and years to develop his products. Maybe he should post all the formulas for his products on the internet so all the other manufacturers of car care products can copy his formulas. That would make great business sense.

If you are skeptical and afraid it might damage your paint...DON'T use it...nothing ventured...nothing gained. Or better yet, do your own testing of Zaino in an independent laboratory and pay for it yourself. Since you claim to have prep and paint experience you are probably already an expert on what products are best. Continue using them. With all of your experience maybe you can develop your own line of Car Care products that are better than Zaino.
It is no big deal whether you use his products or not.


[Modified by Calabra, 6:58 PM 12/11/2001]

KLO

Pat97Vette, I have used Zaino on my car for about 5 years now for what it is worth.

69er

Pat I would think Sal wouldn't manufacture a product that could possible do some damage to paint.
Having been the paint business for 30 years I really feel he knows paint and what can be used safely on it.
The guy has improved his product more and more over the 26 years.
He's proud of his products and many like myself love the Zaino look and protection on our vehicles.
Heck I used Zaino 2 weeks after a $5+K paintjob!
Dial Sal's number.
He's usually available to answer any questions...except his formula!


[Modified by 69er, 6:52 PM 12/11/2001]

Pat97Vette

I'd love it if he could answer my questions (see above posts). I don't want the formula because I don't have the equipment to recreate it.

KLO: Thanks for your testimony. How many coats of Z-# do you apply per year? What year Corvette? I see you also sell Zaino.

Calabra: I'm no expert or I wouldn't be in here asking lots of questions about a product I'm "considering" putting on my $37k baby. I'm not going to hire a lab to give me the answer that a credible company, such as Sal's, can give me.

Thanks all,
Pat

KLO

I have not done a coat to my car in over a year, I use the Z-6 quite often, I do not have a Corvette.

Do you think any wax or polish company would tell you EXACTLY what is in a product? doubtful, just being realistic. But Sal would be a LOT closer to telling you what is in and what is not in his product than a large corporation and that is for sure. Since I am not a chemist, even if Sal told me every exact ingredient, speaking personally I really would not have a clue anyway.

hcvone

Pat, are you planning on keeping your Vette for 10-20 years? I have know Sal for about 20 years, he did not make Zaino polish available to the public for 14 years after he invented the formula, he used it on his own cars and selected customers cars that spent 10-20 grand on custom paint work, I saw cars that the Zaino brothers painted at many New York car shows, they were art work. I was in the deatil business for many years, used more Meguiar's products at our shops than anyone in the US for many years, I have never met in business or personally anyone that cares more about other peoples cars and car care problems than Sal Zaino, he does not rush products to market until they are well tested, and I sure would not be putting it on my Vettes and my M5 if I even though that there "maybe" a chance of a problem somewhere down the road, Zaino polishes are probably the safest product that you could use on your cars finish.

0Zaino Bros (Sal)

Pat,

Please, remember before I became a manufacturer I was a painter first and formulated Zaino for use on my own cars and select customers cars... I would never make a product that had any negative effects both short term or long term... That would have been disastrous for my autobody business and my reputation.. I also didn't release Zaino to the general public until 1989.. To me 15 years of testing was above and beyond the call of duty...

If you did indeed do your research, then you would know that polymers in general are very paint friendly and paint compatible. They are film protectants and do not permeate or penetrate the paint substrata... Henceforth as long as the polymeric system does not contain any abrasives, harmful silicones or high odor solvents, it can not do any short or long term paint damage. Zaino does not contain any of those ingredients...:)

I can go on and on about polymeric systems but since typing is not my forte.... If you are truly sincere in your quest for knowledge, then give me a call and I'll gladly answer any and all of your questions and concerns..

And if you can't call me for whatever reason... Then give me your phone number and I'll call you on my dime...:)


P.S. I have two cars on hand that have Zaino on them... One for 15 years and the other for 21 years... The paint looks brand new... You are welcome to come and inspect them...:)

I look forward to speaking with you.:)

Pat97Vette

Sal,

You've answered my question, stating that there are no long-term effects of the paint from using Zaino. I'm surprised you put it in writing. I take that to mean any paint, not just the type of paint used on the Corvette.

Sure, I'm still interested in what is going on between the paint and the polymer, as other's on this site might also be interested. :yesnod: I'd love to get the answer and post, but I don't want to screw it up in the phone to forum posting process.

Intermezzo

I really don't understand what the worry is about Zaino's long-term effects. In my mind, a synthetic polymer is more similar to your car's clearcoat than any other traditional wax, carnauba or non-carnauba. Besides, the majority of traditional waxes contain high amounts of solvent which many people believe over time will dull and weaken the outer coats of your paint.

69er

Wow Pat.
I just read Sal's post and he more than answered your question.
If I was so worried about a product I would just continue to use what I was using.:yesnod: :cheers:
BTW I have no affiliation with Zaino.
Just love the product.


[Modified by 69er, 1:39 PM 12/12/2001]

greffed

Question to Sal:

Are these two statements true?

"In my mind, a synthetic polymer is more similar to your car's clearcoat than any other traditional wax, carnauba or non-carnauba. Besides, the majority of traditional waxes contain high amounts of solvent which many people believe over time will dull and weaken the outer coats of your paint."

Thank you for your input on this discussion.

Calabra

Pat writes:
"I'm still interested in what is going on between the paint and the polymer"

What are you looking for? Some Scientific explanation? Do you call up OTHER Car Care products companies and ask what goes on between the wax/silicones/abrasives and whatever else they happen to have in their product and the paint? And if your answer is yes...then please post some of their explanations.

I still can't figure out what you are looking for. I guess I am not among the "others" that need that kind of explanation.


[Modified by Calabra, 5:53 PM 12/12/2001]

Pat97Vette

If you can read the above posts, you can see what I was looking for. And Sal agreed to tell me.

When it came out, did you question how long the column lock bypass would function on your C5 before it quit working? Did you ask if the Vettebrakes C4 style suspension would create extra stress on your C3? How about calling to ask what's in the Noah cover protects your C4 from the elements and what elements it can't protect you from?

Post to this forum, any of the above questions and you're going to get a lot of "yeah, buy it, it's great" responses. Ask the manufacturer, and you get folks who are willing to describe how it works and it's breaking points. I don't have the time to discuss the replies from C5Solutions, Vettebrakes or Noah. These are fairly new products but the manufacturers are more than happy to tell you how the product works, it's long term effects, and provide excellent customer and prospect satisfaction. As a result, I recommend those products just like I would recommend Zaino if I didn't have to twist arms.

What year Corvette do you drive? What color? How long have you been using Zaino? What other polishes have you used in the past? Why did you switch to Zaino?

69er

But Pat Sal answered your questions.
The polymer issue.
Two cars that have had Zaino on them for 15 and 22 years.

As I posted in another thread a exec at Meguiars says synthetic polymers are better for today's paints.

I don't know Pat but it seems you some other agenda against Zaino products. :(





[Modified by 69er, 6:26 PM 12/12/2001]

Pat97Vette

Yes he did and I was surprised he did it in writing. Again, please see above post.

And Zaino changed in those 15 to 22 years to be something it wasn't 15 or 22 years ago. Why? Improvements. Why? Because the original wasn't satisfactory. Maybe the latest formula is better. We'll see in 15 to 22 years.

Meguiars polymers are better than Meguiars Carnauba at protecting. How does Meguiar's polymers compare to Zaino's polymers? Please, someone, convince me that Zaino is better (without restating what Sal said).

This thread certainly didn't start out that way, and neither did my post on the Sport Trac site. But, as usual, you go against the "install and drool" crowd and you get flamed for asking questions. Try it sometime, you'll see. Ask the crowd that removes the screen that the manufacturer put in the MAF sensor housing if it's causing turbulence that results in poor readings sent to the computer, resulting in problems and poor performance. Simple logic. Instant flames.

I've contributed a lot of work to assist my fellow Corvette owners in understanding their cars. I get a lot of emails from folks thanking me for this information. Maybe I expect too much from others who provide solutions to Corvette owner's problems.