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Considering this was a very early leak, it was likely related to performance targets instead of real-world numbers. I'd say it's accurate. Z06 performance targets were exceeded, in part due to the pandemic allowing more time for development of the engine and exhaust. The C8 E-Ray isn't called a Grand Sport, but it's very likely a Grand Sport replacement, and the powertrain for that was correct, although performance targets were again exceeded w/ the E-motor. The last 2 powertrains, the TT DOHC motor and the TT DOHC motor w/ E-AWD have been more or less the consensus powertrains for the ZR1 and Zora since this leak has come out, and there's been more evidence than not that it's correct.
Of course, since this leak is ~5 years old at this point, it's entirely possible GM has changed or altered their plans since then, but it's more reliable than taking shots in the dark.
Pandemic, timeline and slow roll outs, strikes, part shortages definitely hindered this generation.
Couple that with strict emissions so who knows what happens next although i thought i read that "future C8's will come FI?" I forgot where i saw that.
That said if your theory is correct by them having certain target performance numbers and then just exceeding them anyway, it is safe to say the next variant will have more than 850hp right? But then if that's the case, i don't even think there's a ZORA anymore. If the ZR1 debuts as a MY26, that means ZORA is MY27 or MY28? And the C9 is scheduled to debut for MY29.
So if the above statement is true, then say goodbye to even a 160k MSRP for the ZR1. The price gap between the z06 and zr1 will be too great, who knows what will happen to the z06 moving foward as it being an NA car how it will do with the strict regulations moving foward.
I still believe they will be conservative with the ZR1 at a lower than expected HP rating with an overboost function like someone said. That way it will keep the price low, and A LOT of room for to expand the car to higher power levels etc.
Relatively low boost on that size engine, at even stingray redline, should get it to 800 or close to it. I think it’ll be 830-840 just so they can claim Zora hits 1000.
Pandemic, timeline and slow roll outs, strikes, part shortages definitely hindered this generation.
Couple that with strict emissions so who knows what happens next although i thought i read that "future C8's will come FI?" I forgot where i saw that.
That said if your theory is correct by them having certain target performance numbers and then just exceeding them anyway, it is safe to say the next variant will have more than 850hp right? But then if that's the case, i don't even think there's a ZORA anymore. If the ZR1 debuts as a MY26, that means ZORA is MY27 or MY28? And the C9 is scheduled to debut for MY29.
So if the above statement is true, then say goodbye to even a 160k MSRP for the ZR1. The price gap between the z06 and zr1 will be too great, who knows what will happen to the z06 moving foward as it being an NA car how it will do with the strict regulations moving foward.
I still believe they will be conservative with the ZR1 at a lower than expected HP rating with an overboost function like someone said. That way it will keep the price low, and A LOT of room for to expand the car to higher power levels etc.
The issues with the pandemic, strikes, and supply issues indeed did have a negative impact on the C8 Z06 and the C8 in general, largely with deadlines and production numbers, but they did use that extra time to tune the exhaust and create that reverse megaphone baffle on the end as per Executive Chief Engineer Tadge Juechter. I don't recall exactly where he stated it, but it's quoted by Car and Driver (At the end of this article), and I believe it's from the
. I would say that it's possible they exceed 850 hp, since this team seems to be very dedicated and passionate, and the bean counters appear to be letting them run wild. I think the MSRP will still be around 150-175, but markups and resale are almost certainly going to be nuts if that's the case.
As for the FI thing, that was just GM Authority saying the ZR1 and Zora will be turbocharged, here's a quote at the end of the article: All Future Corvette C8 Variants Will Have Forced Induction (gmauthority.com)
It's only talking about the C8 generation, no mention of the C9's powerplant in there, which I'd assume is still going to be an NA small block v8 on the Y2 platform for now. It's all speculation though, no telling what they'll do until they do it.
I still believe 850 horsepower is a real low ball number. The engine is a lot better than that.
It's always possible they pull out something crazier, but 850 in a production car is no joke. That's a directly and proportionally larger increase in power than from the 458 to the 488 Pista/F8 Tributo. It's more power than anything from Ferrari or Lamborghini or Porsche or Mercedes or BMW or Audi or McLaren (debatably) or pretty much anyone else who makes V8s in production cars south of 7 figures with the Demon 170 as the only exception I can find.
I’ll throw another data point out there, the C7ZR1 was around 4.75lbs/hp and assuming the C8ZR1 weighs 3800lbs it’ll have to make 800 to be at the same power:weight ratio.
It's always possible they pull out something crazier, but 850 in a production car is no joke. That's a directly and proportionally larger increase in power than from the 458 to the 488 Pista/F8 Tributo. It's more power than anything from Ferrari or Lamborghini or Porsche or Mercedes or BMW or Audi or McLaren (debatably) or pretty much anyone else who makes V8s in production cars south of 7 figures with the Demon 170 as the only exception I can find.
Not Really Accurate.
Baseline: Toyota Yaris. 160.6 hp/liter
Ferrari SF90. 192.5 hp/liter
McLaren 765LT 188.5 hp/liter
Bugatti Chiron. 187.5 hp per liter. (8 liter engine and 1,500 horsepower)
Ford GT. 184.9 hp/liter
Porsche 911 GT2RS. 184.2 hp/liter
Ferrari F8 Tributo. 182.1 hp/liter
BMW M3/M4. 167.7 hp/liter
Alfa Romeo Stelvio. 174.1 hp/liter
Mercedes AMG Black. 180.0 hp/liter
IF TEAM CORVETTE chooses the 160 hp/liter you get 880 horsepower.
IF TEAM CORVETTE chooses 180 hp/liter you get 990 horsepower.
Where is the technology with the LT6 engine....above the Yaris, or even with it? This car is supposed to be a tour de force. The power other manufacturers are getting per liter is the goal, not drawing even with them or slightly higher in total horsepower. It's very possible to get 1,000 hp at those output levels and the engine is strong. And yes, for a ZR1 850 hp from a twin turbo engine is a joke when you consider what other manufactures sell. And IMAGINE the advertising from Toyota when the ZR1 equals the output per liter of the Yaris!! Marketing gold for them. This car is a world beater. That happens with a thousand. Everybody else is making that power per liter. Why can't we have it too?
Last edited by international blue; 04-18-2024 at 01:44 AM.
Ferrari SF90. 192.5 hp/liter
McLaren 765LT 188.5 hp/liter
Bugatti Chiron. 187.5 hp per liter. (8 liter engine and 1,500 horsepower)
Ford GT. 184.9 hp/liter
Porsche 911 GT2RS. 184.2 hp/liter
Ferrari F8 Tributo. 182.1 hp/liter
BMW M3/M4. 167.7 hp/liter
Alfa Romeo Stelvio. 174.1 hp/liter
Mercedes AMG Black. 180.0 hp/liter
IF TEAM CORVETTE chooses the 160 hp/liter you get 880 horsepower.
IF TEAM CORVETTE chooses 180 hp/liter you get 990 horsepower.
Where is the technology with the LT6 engine....above the Yaris, or even with it? This car is supposed to be a tour de force. The power other manufacturers are getting per liter is the goal, not drawing even with them or slightly higher in total horsepower. It's very possible to get 1,000 hp at those output levels and the engine is strong. And yes, for a ZR1 850 hp from a twin turbo engine is a joke when you consider what other manufactures sell. And IMAGINE the advertising from Toyota when the ZR1 equals the output per liter of the Yaris!! Marketing gold for them. This car is a world beater. That happens with a thousand. Everybody else is making that power per liter. Why can't we have it too?
It becomes progressively more difficult to make higher hp/liter as you increase displacement. The Kawasaki Ninja H2 costs about as much as a Chevy Equinox but has 228 hp/liter because it only has a 1 liter engine. The most advanced engine Cadillac has created in the modern age, the Blackwing V8, made 550 horsepower out of only 4.2 liters, or 130.9 hp/liter, just getting beat out by the mighty 2024 Chevy Traverse that makes 328 horsepower out of a 2.5 liter for 131.2 hp/liter. The C7 ZR1 and C8 Z06 both make 121 hp/liter. The C7 Z06 and its wimpy LS7 only makes 72 hp/liter, anemic. Bugatti makes 1500 horsepower out of an 8 liter because it operates as two conjoined 4.0 twin-turbo VR8s making 750 horsepower each, at a cost of only $850,000+ per engine.
If the C8 Z06 had the hp/liter of a naturally aspirated Mazda RX-8 it would make over a thousand horsepower.
It's not impossible to create a twin-turbo flat plane crank V8 that makes 990 horsepower, but putting it in a mass-produced road-legal daily-driveable street car with a warranty does not lend itself to reasonable costs. 880 horsepower is within the realm of possibility, but 990 horsepower is about as likely as Ferrari coming out with a new budget crossover.
The issues with the pandemic, strikes, and supply issues indeed did have a negative impact on the C8 Z06 and the C8 in general, largely with deadlines and production numbers, but they did use that extra time to tune the exhaust and create that reverse megaphone baffle on the end as per Executive Chief Engineer Tadge Juechter. I don't recall exactly where he stated it, but it's quoted by Car and Driver (At the end of this article), and I believe it's from the Z06 Reveal Video. I would say that it's possible they exceed 850 hp, since this team seems to be very dedicated and passionate, and the bean counters appear to be letting them run wild. I think the MSRP will still be around 150-175, but markups and resale are almost certainly going to be nuts if that's the case.
As for the FI thing, that was just GM Authority saying the ZR1 and Zora will be turbocharged, here's a quote at the end of the article: All Future Corvette C8 Variants Will Have Forced Induction (gmauthority.com)
It's only talking about the C8 generation, no mention of the C9's powerplant in there, which I'd assume is still going to be an NA small block v8 on the Y2 platform for now. It's all speculation though, no telling what they'll do until they do it.
GM can make anything possible. They probably could've done this a decade ago.
But the question is, WILL THEY?
I guess the misconception with these discussion threads are people implying that certain people are saying GM are incapable of doing such and such. And that's not the case. The argument is, what will they actually do?
If you look back in time, how many times we assumed or implied one thing, and GM did the other?
This is the C8 z06 story all over again. 95% of the daily posters here all stated the car will be TT. NA was out of the question for most. And most were wrong. Then it became a question on how much power. Most were wrong. Then a question about price. Most were wrong.
It seems that GM throws a curveball into any type of mystery they present us.
Will they actually match what people are expecting with the ZR1? Maybe, maybe not. We won't know until it's actually revealed.
To me, if the ZR1 makes 990hp as you state, there's no need for a ZORA. Let the ZR1 be king of the corvettes once again like the previous generations.
However if there is a ZORA, then i don't think the ZR1 is what people might hope it would be. At least not uncaged. It will be a beast but for factory warranty, regulations purposes etc, it will be tamed.
Ferrari SF90. 192.5 hp/liter
McLaren 765LT 188.5 hp/liter
Bugatti Chiron. 187.5 hp per liter. (8 liter engine and 1,500 horsepower)
Ford GT. 184.9 hp/liter
Porsche 911 GT2RS. 184.2 hp/liter
Ferrari F8 Tributo. 182.1 hp/liter
BMW M3/M4. 167.7 hp/liter
Alfa Romeo Stelvio. 174.1 hp/liter
Mercedes AMG Black. 180.0 hp/liter
IF TEAM CORVETTE chooses the 160 hp/liter you get 880 horsepower.
IF TEAM CORVETTE chooses 180 hp/liter you get 990 horsepower.
Where is the technology with the LT6 engine....above the Yaris, or even with it? This car is supposed to be a tour de force. The power other manufacturers are getting per liter is the goal, not drawing even with them or slightly higher in total horsepower. It's very possible to get 1,000 hp at those output levels and the engine is strong. And yes, for a ZR1 850 hp from a twin turbo engine is a joke when you consider what other manufactures sell. And IMAGINE the advertising from Toyota when the ZR1 equals the output per liter of the Yaris!! Marketing gold for them. This car is a world beater. That happens with a thousand. Everybody else is making that power per liter. Why can't we have it too?
124cc shifter cart was making 37.3hp in ‘97, that’s 300hp/L naturally aspirated. It’s 3 decades later with 2 turbos forcing air in and you’re going to tell me Team Corvette can’t match a go kart from when I was a kid, physics comes into play at some point lol https://www.motortrend.com/features/...shifter-karts/
Yaris - greatest sports car of all time and the benchmark I guess. Pretty safe to say TEAM CORVETTE does not give two ***** about the yaris and how much HP/L it has when deciding what the numbers will be for the C8 ZR1. If the ZR1 delivers anything above 755HP they will still sell every single copy they make.
GM can make anything possible. They probably could've done this a decade ago.
But the question is, WILL THEY?
I guess the misconception with these discussion threads are people implying that certain people are saying GM are incapable of doing such and such. And that's not the case. The argument is, what will they actually do?
If you look back in time, how many times we assumed or implied one thing, and GM did the other?
This is the C8 z06 story all over again. 95% of the daily posters here all stated the car will be TT. NA was out of the question for most. And most were wrong. Then it became a question on how much power. Most were wrong. Then a question about price. Most were wrong.
It seems that GM throws a curveball into any type of mystery they present us.
Will they actually match what people are expecting with the ZR1? Maybe, maybe not. We won't know until it's actually revealed.
To me, if the ZR1 makes 990hp as you state, there's no need for a ZORA. Let the ZR1 be king of the corvettes once again like the previous generations.
However if there is a ZORA, then i don't think the ZR1 is what people might hope it would be. At least not uncaged. It will be a beast but for factory warranty, regulations purposes etc, it will be tamed.
That's a very good point, all of this is really speculation, so we don't know exactly what's going on until GM announces the car. I'm expecting ~850 hp, so I think that leaves enough room for a 1000 hp Zora with an identical powerplant and an e-motor, but there's a number of other ways it could or couldn't go.
It's not impossible to create a twin-turbo flat plane crank V8 that makes 990 horsepower, but putting it in a mass-produced road-legal daily-driveable street car with a warranty does not lend itself to reasonable costs. 880 horsepower is within the realm of possibility, but 990 horsepower is about as likely as Ferrari coming out with a new budget crossover.
Very easily done with the LT7! You forget that HP is all about cylinder head airflow and the LT6 cylinder heads are killer flowing heads (~30% more flow than the LS7 heads!!!)! That's why with reasonable boost this is what I simulated on a reasonable engine dyno simulation program using the LT6 cylinder heads and emission legal blower cam to make 900 HP without breaking a sweat!
Very easily done with the LT7! You forget that HP is all about cylinder head airflow and the LT6 cylinder heads are killer flowing heads (~30% more flow than the LS7 heads!!!)! That's why with reasonable boost this is what I simulated on a reasonable engine dyno simulation program using the LT6 cylinder heads and emission legal blower cam to make 900 HP without breaking a sweat!
If that's the TQ curve, they're shutting fuel off at 7200. No reason to rev it any higher.
That's a very good point, all of this is really speculation, so we don't know exactly what's going on until GM announces the car. I'm expecting ~850 hp, so I think that leaves enough room for a 1000 hp Zora with an identical powerplant and an e-motor, but there's a number of other ways it could or couldn't go.
We can't have our cake and eat it too that's why i said this is the c8 z06 story all over again. People wanted a 700+hp TT z06 for 85k.
Now people want an 850hp-900+hp TT monster ZR1 for 150-160k? lol
Let's see what surprise GM has for those who are getting the ZR1. I'm not getting one so i don't really care what route they go with however it's very cool they are representing and competing with the most elite supercars/hypercars now.
Very easily done with the LT7! You forget that HP is all about cylinder head airflow and the LT6 cylinder heads are killer flowing heads (~30% more flow than the LS7 heads!!!)! That's why with reasonable boost this is what I simulated on a reasonable engine dyno simulation program using the LT6 cylinder heads and emission legal blower cam to make 900 HP without breaking a sweat!
I hear ya and they are great, but “boost” is just a measurement of restriction so a better flowing cylinder head will have a lower manifold psi than a lower flowing cylinder head with the same turbo trying to force air in. What cubic inch, turbos and cam specs are you simulating exactly?
04-17-2024, 02:31 PM
