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Why do employees feel like they are entitled to share in the upside on a year to year basis? Did any of them invest principal into the stock to do so, or is this a “it’s not fair / fair share nonsense comparing their skills in aggregate to those of the CEO? If you want extra money on the upsides, then you need to risk your own cash/capital and time for the downsides. I don’t see any employee willing to accept a 50% pay cut if the macro economy falls into a recession and new car sales plummet.
This is a "vette board and I've deleted one comment already and have tried to stay out of the merits except for a comment or two about it from a macro or evolutionary standpoint. Sometimes, though, it is very tempting to come off the top rope with a metal folding chair. Better to just extend my wishes for a satisfactory resolution for all concerned,
I , for one, do not criticize you personally. Generally, you , union, and government workers "chose" safety over risk. There is a price to pay for that. The "hourly wage" is the tip of the ice berg. If you add the benefits and the 4 day work week being demanded, you are closer to paying $150 an hour. It is a sure way to increase GM prices higher while KIA and others continually make cars for less and take a larger share of the market. This is not to mention as EV's start en mass, how many assembly line workers will be unemployed. Robots could do the job of most of the workers and will eventually.
Where are you getting $150/hr? Someone is blowing smoke and you're listening to the wrong people. Our total package right now is not even close to that. The Union building trades (Carpenters/Pipefitters/Electricians, etc.) make more than the UAW at $32/hr, and their total packages are no where near $150/hr. Friend is union carpenter, his total package is $69.51/hr, this is Michigan scale. On the check, $38.48/hr. The other $31.03/hr goes to pension, annuity, health care, etc.
4 day work week won't happen in my opinion, all negotiation tactics. Ford didn't agree to it and I think they are getting ready to sign contract, with 25% raise over 3 years.
And who is buying Kias? They barely have 5% of the US market share. They are a blip on the radar. lol..
EVs, dont get me started. I'll be long retired before those become a reality. You assume they will be built by robots and not humans. No one knows what the future holds, everyone is entitled to their opinion though.
Last edited by Jwalker3rd; 09-26-2023 at 09:15 PM.
why do employees feel like they are entitled to share in the upside on a year to year basis? Did any of them invest principal into the stock to do so, or is this a “it’s not fair / fair share nonsense comparing their skills in aggregate to those of the ceo? If you want extra money on the upsides, then you need to risk your own cash/capital and time for the downsides. I don’t see any employee willing to accept a 50% pay cut if the macro economy falls into a recession and new car sales plummet.
Where are you getting $150/hr? Someone is blowing smoke and you're listening to the wrong people. Our total package right now is not even close to that. The Union building trades (Carpenters/Pipefitters/Electricians, etc.) make more than the UAW at $32/hr, and their total packages are no where near $150/hr. Friend is union carpenter, his total package is $69.51/hr, this is Michigan scale. On the check, $38.48/hr. The other $31.03/hr goes to pension, annuity, health care, etc.
4 day work week won't happen in my opinion, all negotiation tactics. Ford didn't agree to it and I think they are getting ready to sign contract, with 25% raise over 3 years.
And who is buying Kias? They barely have 5% of the US market share. They are a blip on the radar. lol..
EVs, dont get me started. I'll be long retired before those become a reality. You assume they will be built by robots and not humans. No one knows what the future holds, everyone is entitled to their opinion though.
The most absurd part of the UAW demands is the idea of bringing back the defined benefit pension plan. That would be 15% - 20% of salary by itself and that isn't going to happen. Workers should share in the spoils through profit sharing, not wages. Sorry the people who lead the industry (execs and union) are unprofessional. The UAW retiree health care VEBA after 2008 was criminal. Union retirees jumped in front of secured creditors to gain access to billions for a non-federally insured health care benefit. Guess who had invested in all of those high yielding GM bonds that went to zero and didn't get a chance to recover anything as most of the money went into the retiree health care plan? Teacher retirement plans. The US auto industry is uninvestable which is the biggest problem.
The most absurd part of the UAW demands is the idea of bringing back the defined benefit pension plan. That would be 15% - 20% of salary by itself and that isn't going to happen. Workers should share in the spoils through profit sharing, not wages. Sorry the people who lead the industry (execs and union) are unprofessional. The UAW retiree health care VEBA after 2008 was criminal. Union retirees jumped in front of secured creditors to gain access to billions for a non-federally insured health care benefit. Guess who had invested in all of those high yielding GM bonds that went to zero and didn't get a chance to recover anything as most of the money went into the retiree health care plan? Teacher retirement plans. The US auto industry is uninvestable which is the biggest problem.
We do get profit sharing, which is also taxed. Hourly wage stays on the check forever.
I agree the US Auto industry is uninvestable, but back in 2008 I actually bought $20K in Ford stock when it was $1.40/share. I sold it when it got to $12 and some change.. Helped finished paying off my kids college education.
So we are greedy? How much should we make? Just curious.. This is highly insulting to many of us in this trade. I for one have a Masters in Education. I put myself and my 3 kids through college working for GM. I started there when I was 18yo. Reason I stayed working for GM is because I make more doing this than I would being a teacher.When I retire in 2 years, I am going to start teaching grade school to pass my time. I'll be still young at 49yo.
Let me ask you, how many of you own your own business'? Do you pay your employees well, or give them the going rate? Do you give them paid vacations? How about health care? Paid Holidays? Do you have retirements started for new employees and do you match investments? How about school? Would you pay for them to continue their education? GM paid for part of my education, and I am suppose to feel bad because they helped me out? Sick and tired of the cry babies thinking UAW workers don't deserve more than $32/hr. You expect people to live in poverty? Hell, with rates as high as they are to buy a home or car, wouldn't surprise me to see many fall into a hole that can't get out of. The 40hr work week nets $66K a year, it is hard to make a living for anyone making just that alone. Thankfully I am a supervisor, and I can work as much as I want and unlimited OT.
But yeah, were screwing you and innocent customers with legalized extortion, get real bro..
Teachers are the most underpaid profession in the United States. Why not get pissed at the crooked lawyers and CPAs charging $2,3,4, 500/hr ? Thats ok, but god forbid a UAW worker get
$30/hr? lol..
I think you unwittingly made a lot of people's points for them. You just admitted how much GM already pays people and how good they have been for their workers and why you are there. But people still DEMAND more. The other issue is that it seems some people think that just because they go to a job 40 hours a week, it is supposed to pay them a living that they expect. No, it pays what the job is worth for the company to remain competitive. If everyone had the same mentality, the entire country would shut down. Now, 16 year old first time workers at McDonald's require a salary that puts them and their 3 kids through college, a new house, a new car, a ____________ simply because they have a job. Doesn't matter what that job is or how skilled. That's what it sounds like at least to me.
I'm truly ashamed at what so many people in this country have become. Entitled.
Last edited by AustinVetter; 09-26-2023 at 09:37 PM.
I don't see the UAW asking for a raise. I see them demanding one or else they refuse to go to work, crippling the company they work for and hurting the customers they serve. Every worker (UAW or not) has the right to ask for a raise. The employer has the right to say yea or nay. If nay, the employee has the right to walk out the door and find a job that pays what they feel they deserve or further their education and skillsets until they reach their goal. What they don't have a right to do is demand anything from an employer.
I think you unwittingly made a lot of people's points for them. You just admitted how much GM already pays people and how good they have been for their workers and why you are there. But people still DEMAND more. The other issue is that it seems some people think that just because they go to a job 40 hours a week, it is supposed to pay them a living that they expect. No, it pays what the job is worth for the company to remain competitive. If everyone had the same mentality, the entire country would shut down. Now, 16 year old first time workers at McDonald's require a salary that puts them and their 3 kids through college, a new house, a new car, a ____________ simply because they have a job. Doesn't matter what that job is or how skilled. That's what it sounds like at least to me.
I'm truly ashamed at what so many people in this country have become. Entitled.
I make my own points, I dont make anyone else's.
And why shouldn't GM be good to their employees? It is well known what UAW workers make, it is no secret.
Lots of big corporations will pay some of your college education. GM didn't pay for all of mine, we are allocated so much per year, so I took advantage of it. I'll bet most of you didn't know, McDonalds will pay for your some of your education costs, if you give them so many hours per week and stay employed by them. Have a friend who actually worked for them, and put himself through nursing school. Is the girl that took your order entitled to $15/hr? Or should she just make $3.35/hr, what I was making back in the mid/late 80s at Little Caesars?
I haven't worked a 40hr work week since forever. Im at the plant 6-7 days a week. But I do expect if I work 40hrs, it should be a decent living. Do the math, $32/hr, 40hr work week is $66K+ a year. It is a decent wage, especially if you're single. But try being married, wife is stay at home mom and having kids, and only making that much. I dont know anyone that could make it in this day and age. It would be a struggle. I'll bet money if anyone of you worked for the UAW, you would be chirping a different tune. Try being happy for people trying to make and fight for a decent wage. It's like you guys want the UAW workers to go into poverty, lose their homes, cars, etc. Yet you all are still buying the corvettes we produce, how ironic.
They're asking for what was promised when they gave those concessions in 2008. All of it was supposed to be only temporary. They've gotten a $4 an hour raise in 16 years! They had more buying power in 2007 than they do now so they've effectively taken a pay cut. They're pissed because these companies are paying the ceos and executives outrageous salaries and at the same time trying to not give back a little of what was promised during the bankruptcies at GM and Chrysler. The vast majority of those people are hard working and just want to be made whole again.
Where are you getting $150/hr? Someone is blowing smoke and you're listening to the wrong people. Our total package right now is not even close to that. The Union building trades (Carpenters/Pipefitters/Electricians, etc.) make more than the UAW at $32/hr, and their total packages are no where near $150/hr. Friend is union carpenter, his total package is $69.51/hr, this is Michigan scale. On the check, $38.48/hr. The other $31.03/hr goes to pension, annuity, health care, etc.
4 day work week won't happen in my opinion, all negotiation tactics. Ford didn't agree to it and I think they are getting ready to sign contract, with 25% raise over 3 years.
And who is buying Kias? They barely have 5% of the US market share. They are a blip on the radar. lol..
EVs, dont get me started. I'll be long retired before those become a reality. You assume they will be built by robots and not humans. No one knows what the future holds, everyone is entitled to their opinion though.
Clearly you are either clueless or intentionally stating falsehood because you are a UAW member trying to misrepresent the UAW demand therefore it’s you who are blowing smoke. BTW, the guy who knows exactly what the demands contain is the President of General Motors Mark Ruess. Here’s what he said and wrote in a recent Ops Ed. And don’t even attempt to say he is blowing smoke because that would be an outright lie.
”UAW leadership claims GM pays its team members "poverty" wages. This is simply not true. In our current proposal, we are offering a 20% wage increase ― including for temporary employees, who make up only 6% to 10% of our workforce. That means about 85% of current represented employees would earn a base wage of approximately $82,000 a year. In contrast, the average median household incomein nine areas where GM has major assembly plants is $51,821. And total compensation for the 85% of the workforce, with overtime and benefits, would be more than $150,000 a year. In the 2019 contract, wages for hourly workers with less than one year of service earning $17 an hour had the potential to reach $32.32 an hour over the term of the contract.”
Possibly in less than 2 years (more than likely as it looks) and I don’t support it ….
The US car companies are in ruin. On purpose or not (I believe so) …….. there is worse to come.
”UAW leadership claims GM pays its team members "poverty" wages. This is simply not true. In our current proposal, we are offering a 20% wage increase ― including for temporary employees, who make up only 6% to 10% of our workforce. That means about 85% of current represented employees would earn a base wage of approximately $82,000 a year. In contrast, the average median household incomein nine areas where GM has major assembly plants is $51,821. And total compensation for the 85% of the workforce, with overtime and benefits, would be more than $150,000 a year. In the 2019 contract, wages for hourly workers with less than one year of service earning $17 an hour had the potential to reach $32.32 an hour over the term of the contract.”
I think it may very well be time for me to switch professions!
I wonder if they would have any use for a recently retired 40 something year old Merchant Mariner. They’ll be doing better than me especially if they get more then what GM has already offered.
Sure sounds to me like they don’t realize how good they have it.
I don’t get to see my family 6-8 Months out of the year and have to pay my own healthcare and a measly 2% 401k match. No retirement, company paid college tuitions for my kids or profit sharing.
I live down the road from an Ultium battery plant too, I could bike to work.
I am also proud that we chose our home state of Michigan for this critical battery production hub," Ford added.
NOW
Construction paused
But a lot has happened in the last seven months. The United Auto Workers union, which wants to represent workers at battery factories, went on strike against Ford, General Motors (GM) - Get Free Report and Stellantis (STLA) - Get Free Report on Sept. 15.
And now plans for Blue Oval Battery Park have been put on hold, according to Ford spokesman T.R. Reid, who said that spending has been limited on it.
I mean what do they expect? Corporations are not charities, workers have no ownership stake in them. The rub is the fact that we bailed out GM when they should have gone through a managed bankruptcy. Ford should tell them all to get "ducked".
I mean what do they expect? Corporations are not charities, workers have no ownership stake in them. The rub is the fact that we bailed out GM when they should have gone through a managed bankruptcy. Ford should tell them all to get "ducked".
Exactly. Not to mention they are already getting large profit-sharing bonuses due to the last round of legalized extortion (strikes).
I am also proud that we chose our home state of Michigan for this critical battery production hub," Ford added.
NOW
Construction paused
But a lot has happened in the last seven months. The United Auto Workers union, which wants to represent workers at battery factories, went on strike against Ford, General Motors (GM) - Get Free Report and Stellantis (STLA) - Get Free Report on Sept. 15.
And now plans for Blue Oval Battery Park have been put on hold, according to Ford spokesman T.R. Reid, who said that spending has been limited on it.
That's due to the House of Representatives opening an investigation of the Chinese Communist Party's (CCP's) links to the battery factory, not anything to do with the strike.
Panasonic is opening a battery plant near us which would not have been possible without a huge tax subsidy ($1.0 billion+) and a right to work state status. Quickest effect was to double real estate prices near where the plant will be built. The Michigan battery plant was a mess from the very beginning with CCP-ownership, plus other NIMBY-type topics.
09-26-2023, 08:53 PM
