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So, the car will reach the speed limiter at the top of fifth gear and maybe get sixth gear. Why do you suppose Chevy does this as opposed to running 7th or 8th at or near the redline? This is intentional, but why do you think they did this?
To meet epa requirements?
Originally Posted by Mitchell_B
Rather than having me answer, why not ask GM? I’m sure they will be completely up front and honest.
Have you driven on a 2R, how many Gs do you expect it to pull? Check out this article comparing the GT3RS with 2Rs to the Cup car with wider Michelin slicks… https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2...mparison-test/
Look at what the C6Z06 did on narrower/older technology original Cup tires and no real aero…
I like my answer (above post #40) better. The car already has a gas guzzler tax, better gearing and a next level GGT would not have deterred any purchasers from buying it.
I like my answer (above post #40) better. The car already has a gas guzzler tax, better gearing and a next level GGT would not have deterred any purchasers from buying it.
I agree cost had something to do with it as well, but they knew it’d be a popular car and therefore can’t help but think with the mandates about fleet requirements it isn’t benefiting their overall goals. Nobody buying a 6 figure car is concerned about gas mileage, but the government is deciding what your options are going to be. You use all the electricity you want in a heavy EV and they don’t care, but selling a vehicle that burns gas is not what they want unless it’s a 3/4 ton truck.
Easy answer, because it is the same transmission gearing they run in the Stingray and the bean counters said that is good enough.
I bet when Tadge said top speed between 205 and 212, that was based on testing data they had and what proper Z06 gearing they expected to have, not the Stingray transmission gearing.
Ding, ding, ding…
As someone who has 21 years of experience tracking, the OEM programming in track mode is unbeatable. There’s no need to manually shift on track.
Wow that lap looked so smooth in that car! Great lap!!
He makes it look incredibly smooth and "easy" .......and yet, I know it's far from "easy" to get that kind of lap time!
Originally Posted by Nitro-C5
I just looked it up and the only cars faster were all track only race cars. Wow!
I just looked up the recent IMSA race results, and the C8R ran a best lap of 1:16.5. Dare I say that it's "only" ~5.5 seconds faster than a street "stock" version?!?!
Originally Posted by 64drvr
Very cool to see. That’s about 4 seconds faster than his lap in the C7Z06. Factoring in tires, that’s roughly a solid 2 second improvement over the c7? Nicely done.
I think his C7Z time was 1:26.9 or something like that, so it's damn close to ~5 seconds faster .............that's monumental, considering the C8Z "only" has ~20HP more than the C7Z. Goes to show the benefit of the new chassis and engine placement.
I don't know what kind of lap time Ron Fellows would run in a C6Z, but just for perspective, I've run a 1:31.0 with my C6Z, so the jump to ~1:26 with a C7Z makes sense (150HP more at Mosport, which is a power track). I'm actually jaw-dropped at the difference between the C7 & C8! Also the cornering speeds are mind bending. He's cornering between ~100 - 120MPH in many places, where I think I'm only going ~90 - 100MPH at best!! (T2 & T4 stand out). And yet I don't consider myself "slow"!!
He makes it look incredibly smooth and "easy" .......and yet, I know it's far from "easy" to get that kind of lap time!
I just looked up the recent IMSA race results, and the C8R ran a best lap of 1:16.5. Dare I say that it's "only" ~5.5 seconds faster than a street "stock" version?!?!
I think his C7Z time was 1:26.9 or something like that, so it's damn close to ~5 seconds faster .............that's monumental, considering the C8Z "only" has ~20HP more than the C7Z. Goes to show the benefit of the new chassis and engine placement.
I don't know what kind of lap time Ron Fellows would run in a C6Z, but just for perspective, I've run a 1:31.0 with my C6Z, so the jump to ~1:26 with a C7Z makes sense (150HP more at Mosport, which is a power track). I'm actually jaw-dropped at the difference between the C7 & C8! Also the cornering speeds are mind bending. He's cornering between ~100 - 120MPH in many places, where I think I'm only going ~90 - 100MPH at best!! (T2 & T4 stand out). And yet I don't consider myself "slow"!!
Currently Toyo R888R's (...they were all I could get my hands on last year). I'm actually surprised, they work better than I expected. I was into the 1:31's back in ~2011 with my previous C6Z on a set of Hoosier R6's, and now I'm running similar times with my current Z on the Toyo's!
I don't know if it's been confirmed what tires Fellows would have been running, but I'd suspect probably Cup 2's?? They probably provide a similar amount of grip as the Toyo's?
but you are comparing a c7z06 to a full option z07 c8 .. huge difference .. add the z07 package to the c7 the c7 z06/z07 could shave off 5 seconds.. the option z07 on the c7 car is def not going to get worse times.. gotta compare apples to apples in this kind of comparison
but you are comparing a c7z06 to a full option z07 c8 .. huge difference .. add the z07 package to the c7 the c7 z06/z07 could shave off 5 seconds.. the option z07 on the c7 car is def not going to get worse times.. gotta compare apples to apples in this kind of comparison
You think a C7 Z07 could run ~5 seconds faster than a regular Z06? I don't think so - not at Mosport - the biggest difference is the brakes, and they're barely used there!! I think the whole C8 vs. C7 "package" is the deal breaker, but maybe that's JMHO?
i guess the cup 2 tires don,t matter..downforce,cf brakes and tires are huge.. take the z07 option off the c8 z06 and run the plain tires with no cf brakes or wing and aero.. i assume you think it will get better time?..i guess the ron fellows c8 cf wheels play no part in lap time either..ok..the plain c7 z06 WITHOUT Z07 AERO ,WITHOUT CUP 2 TIRES, WITHOUT CF WHEELS{ WHICH WAS USED IN C8 FELLOWS LAP, AND CF BRAKES WILL NOT GAIN ANYTIME with a z07 package AND CANNOT POSSIBLY SHAVE 5 SECONDS or any time off lap.... i guess we should call the camaro ss and the zl1 same at the track..lol
Michelin ® Pilot ® Sport Cup tire:
Carbon fiber wheels: Only available with the Z07 Performance Package, these carbon fiber wheels save weight on the vehicle, and a lighter vehicle can move faster.
Carbon ceramic brakes: These brakes provide you with ultimate stopping power, perfect for the racetrack.
Aerodynamic exterior: The Z07 Performance Package adds a front splitter, front dive planes, and a rear wing. These aerodynamic elements provide greater downforce to keep you securely on the ground.
Last edited by mikepage0007; 07-20-2023 at 11:51 AM.
Currently Toyo R888R's (...they were all I could get my hands on last year). I'm actually surprised, they work better than I expected. I was into the 1:31's back in ~2011 with my previous C6Z on a set of Hoosier R6's, and now I'm running similar times with my current Z on the Toyo's!
I don't know if it's been confirmed what tires Fellows would have been running, but I'd suspect probably Cup 2's?? They probably provide a similar amount of grip as the Toyo's?
2Rs, definitely better than 888’s as the regular Cup2s I believe are better than them.
Originally Posted by mikepage0007
but you are comparing a c7z06 to a full option z07 c8 .. huge difference .. add the z07 package to the c7 the c7 z06/z07 could shave off 5 seconds.. the option z07 on the c7 car is def not going to get worse times.. gotta compare apples to apples in this kind of comparison
obvious these are not cf wheels so the c8 laps have advantage.. fellows c7 is a stick which is slower then the automatic.. again advantage is c8..now it is possible that it is a z07 option car as tires look like possible cup and also appears to have the transparent wicker bill which is z07 but not seeing dive planes..fellows claim it is a production model 2016 Chevrolet Corvette C7 Z06 ..and in the c8 video claims this is a z06 WITH z07 option.. could they of not included the option z07 title in c7 video ? possible.. maybe somebody will clear up someday. but i would bet that a EVENLY option c7 z06/z07 AUTOMATIC with cf wheels would be a race that i would not bet my pinks on..imo
obvious these are not cf wheels so the c8 laps have advantage.. fellows c7 is a stick which is slower then the automatic.. again advantage is c8..now it is possible that it is a z07 option car as tires look like possible cup and also appears to have the transparent wicker bill which is z07 but not seeing dive planes..fellows claim it is a production model 2016 Chevrolet Corvette C7 Z06 ..and in the c8 video claims this is a z06 WITH z07 option.. could they of not included the option z07 title in c7 video ? possible.. maybe somebody will clear up someday. but i would bet that a EVENLY option c7 z06/z07 AUTOMATIC with cf wheels would be a race that i would not bet my pinks on..imo
I sourced the picture of the car from CB and the front canards are there and as you noted the adjustable rear wicker...this is a C7 Z06 Z07 and it means the stock tires are CUP 2s.
I understand what your are trying to convey but Ron fellows 2017 and Ron Fellows 2022 is an apple to apple compare.
obvious these are not cf wheels so the c8 laps have advantage.. fellows c7 is a stick which is slower then the automatic.. again advantage is c8..now it is possible that it is a z07 option car as tires look like possible cup and also appears to have the transparent wicker bill which is z07 but not seeing dive planes..fellows claim it is a production model 2016 Chevrolet Corvette C7 Z06 ..and in the c8 video claims this is a z06 WITH z07 option.. could they of not included the option z07 title in c7 video ? possible.. maybe somebody will clear up someday. but i would bet that a EVENLY option c7 z06/z07 AUTOMATIC with cf wheels would be a race that i would not bet my pinks on..imo
The 2Rs are worth around 2 seconds on a track of this length and the biggest difference imho, the trans can be a small advantage as well as the CF wheels though I’d still put money on the LT6 being it won’t pull timing like the LT4. Being it’s a 2016 it doesn’t have the updated MSRC either, so that would help close the gap some as well as 100 octane tune. That puts us around a second apart which is close enough to be weather/surface conditions imho.
I sourced the picture of the car from CB and the front canards are there and as you noted the adjustable rear wicker...this is a C7 Z06 Z07 and it means the stock tires are CUP 2s.
I understand what your are trying to convey but Ron fellows 2017 and Ron Fellows 2022 is an apple to apple compare.
Nice find!
I certainly don't DISPUTE the benefit of lighter wheels, brakes, added aero, etc., but the lap time he got seems perfectly in-line with what I'd expect of a C7Z. Heck, I've seen track-prepped C6Z's go faster, but it's no longer "factory stock" so it's not apples to apples.
The performance advantage of the C8Z as a whole is undeniable. Why did GM go through all the trouble to reconfigure the car in the first place if it was only going to get them marginal gains at the end of the day? Clearly, the difference is SIGNIFICANT, which I would have expected. But I have to say, I'm blown away at the difference!!! Same driver, same track ................ I think it's as accurate of a comparison as you're going to get. About the only thing MISSING from the C7 are the carbon fiber wheels. Fine. What would they be worth? ~1 or 2 seconds if we're being super generous????
I'd like to see a C7 ZR1 lap time. It would probably be closer to the C8, but now we're talking about a car with even more aero and another ~80HP, on a track which favours HP. I still don't know if the C7 chassis can compare to the C8 chassis anymore, but it would be fun to see that for fun .
I certainly don't DISPUTE the benefit of lighter wheels, brakes, added aero, etc., but the lap time he got seems perfectly in-line with what I'd expect of a C7Z. Heck, I've seen track-prepped C6Z's go faster, but it's no longer "factory stock" so it's not apples to apples.
The performance advantage of the C8Z as a whole is undeniable. Why did GM go through all the trouble to reconfigure the car in the first place if it was only going to get them marginal gains at the end of the day? Clearly, the difference is SIGNIFICANT, which I would have expected. But I have to say, I'm blown away at the difference!!! Same driver, same track ................ I think it's as accurate of a comparison as you're going to get. About the only thing MISSING from the C7 are the carbon fiber wheels. Fine. What would they be worth? ~1 or 2 seconds if we're being super generous????
I'd like to see a C7 ZR1 lap time. It would probably be closer to the C8, but now we're talking about a car with even more aero and another ~80HP, on a track which favours HP. I still don't know if the C7 chassis can compare to the C8 chassis anymore, but it would be fun to see that for fun .
Thanks I think there is a great one on one Z06 vs ZR1 with Poor-sha analysis on you tube.
My real motivation here is to emphasize that to take a previous generation stock car to the level of the next is not just a plug and play the components of the new and voila'... done deal.
To this point, Jim Mero's multiple interviews, both print and live voice describe the difficulties he had with the C5 Z06 just plucking in magnesium wheels, magnesium deck, carbon hood and titanium exhaust (among others) and the whole turning out to be less than the sum of the parts.
The 2Rs are worth around 2 seconds on a track of this length and the biggest difference imho, the trans can be a small advantage as well as the CF wheels though I’d still put money on the LT6 being it won’t pull timing like the LT4. Being it’s a 2016 it doesn’t have the updated MSRC either, so that would help close the gap some as well as 100 octane tune. That puts us around a second apart which is close enough to be weather/surface conditions imho.
Agreed. The C8 chassis/layout is better than the C7, but not by as much as the 5 seconds suggest (and I actually think the cup2r's would only gain you a second here with such a short lap). If the chassis were that much better, we'd see the c8 stingray outlapping the c7 gs even though the c7 gs has better and wider stock rubber than the c8, but we dont. The stingray doesn't even come close to overcoming the tire disparity. All factors being equal, I give the C8 about a one second per one minute lap advantage over an equivalent C7. That's not nothing either. Adding 100hp to a mid 3000's lbs car gives you about that as well.
Agreed. The C8 chassis/layout is better than the C7, but not by as much as the 5 seconds suggest (and I actually think the cup2r's would only gain you a second here with such a short lap). If the chassis were that much better, we'd see the c8 stingray outlapping the c7 gs even though the c7 gs has better and wider stock rubber than the c8, but we dont. The stingray doesn't even come close to overcoming the tire disparity. All factors being equal, I give the C8 about a one second per one minute lap advantage over an equivalent C7. That's not nothing either. Adding 100hp to a mid 3000's lbs car gives you about that as well.
I was basing it off Michelin claiming .8 seconds per mile and Mosport being 2.5 miles long. I would agree as the C7Z51 and C8Z51 on similar compound tires aren’t that drastically different in lap times and the C8 has a rear tire width advantage. At ECR in the summer Justin Oakes(TA2 driver) in his C8 with exhaust (525hp) and 295/345 Hoosiers went 1:58, I did a 2:03 last weekend with 285/315 200tw in my C6GS with exhaust (475hp). I have no aero nor DCT and inferior power to weight ratio as well as I won’t put myself on his level, but the stickier/wider tires I’d say are worth 3 seconds no?
07-11-2023, 08:41 PM
I think there is a great one on one Z06 vs ZR1 with Poor-sha analysis on you tube.
